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When is Stonehenge a good play?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by guspasho, May 22, 2014.

  1. zoiks

    zoiks Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    40
    I'm a Prince player and usually go for Stonehenge early on as I like the border pops. Having read this thread, I think I'm gonna change my strategy.
     
  2. IronCrown

    IronCrown Black Foe of the World

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
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    674
    I always play on Emperor level and build Stonehenge in about 90% of my games, or at least try. The free monuments in all my cities are very useful, but on top of that I really appreciate that early Great Prophet. He is usually settled and kick-starts my economy and the production output of my capital city. At this early time the +5 gold and hammer bonus makes a big difference.
     
  3. FlyingSwan

    FlyingSwan King

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    620
    Emporer is my favourite level. Great prophets 1st,as opposed to scientists building an academy, I'm not so sure about. A settled prophet, compared to +50% research...hmm, I like to get a great scientist out first. Also in my experience that prophet can be more useful for the theology bulb.

    On the other hand, settling great people early on has won me loads of games, I was inspired by OBSOLETES style of arrogance and outside the box thinking. (Arrogance to the game designers as to how they thought the game should be played-and how it can be won)

    If you're building SH 90% of the time, I guess you only play CRE leaders 10% of the time, or you just build it whenever.
     
  4. Ringo Kid

    Ringo Kid Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    536
    I enjoy building stonehenge and the great wall in most Noble games. Mostly because barbarians irritate me. And I like to automate my workers. Not that is it optimal in terms of the math, just makes the play more enjoyable for me without micro managing.
     
  5. pepoluan

    pepoluan Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 27, 2006
    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Just my 2¢...

    With the K-Mod, Astronomy doesn't obsolete Stonehenge, so the free Monuments stay in the game. Very useful for smaller cities facing an opponent's capital. Especially since K-Mod also modifies how culture points spread.
     
  6. Amao

    Amao King

    Joined:
    May 11, 2002
    Messages:
    735
    Location:
    Shanghai
    SH is good if you've already got it. However, to get it, you may need a tech. And it's a lot of hammers at the beginning.

    On the other hand, let's say you don't go for SH, how would you deal with it? There are actually many ways out.

    1. Switch your thinking, learn to settle city differently when you are not CRE and you don't have SH. Just settle right by the resources that you need even if it's sub-optimal in long run. It's the immediate returns that we are looking for.

    2 Also, learn to share resources and use capital and other high culture city's culture pop smartly. Say, you are close to 50 turns and you are settling your 2nd or 3rd city around your capital. Then you can expect the capital to pop border really soon and you can use those resources even if your city is at distance 2.

    3 Chop a monument yourself. You just need a worker and a forest. Why not use Capital? It's busy producing more settler/workers or busy producing your first GS with the library. No time for this Wonder.

    4 Pop rush a library is not hard with high food. Just grow to pop 4, chop a forest. You don't have Writing? Are you a serious player?

    5 As you progress, the monument is less and less important as more alternative. CoL opens up Caste System. Should you switch to this Civic, you can pop a new city's border in 3 turns at worst. Music allows you to build culture, and now you can stay in Slavery and do your pop rushing frenzy. Unless you are Cha, there is no more need for monument. Oh, there is Drama, which allows you to raise the culture slider. However, not often used these days. Waste too many precious coins. They are better used for maintenance or for beakers.
     
  7. Lennier

    Lennier Emperor

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    Drama also allows you to build theaters, which are less expensive than libraries.
     
  8. schadenfreude

    schadenfreude Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2003
    Messages:
    79
    Sometimes I will settle aggressively towards my closest neighbor. If that city spot includes stone, I may take a shot at Stonehedge. The early culture points can help secure your big fat cross vs the culture of a capital until you are prepared to go to the sword.
     
  9. nate45

    nate45 Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    154
    Am I the only one who just straight up rushes stonehenge every single game for non-creative civs? (Edit: i just re-read this thread and there apparently there is one other person who does this. Backthief understands this game :) ) I go crazy without the extra culture.

    My build order for capitol starting city is typically worker (or two if i have a bunch of forests) --> warrior --> stonehenge --> settler --> settler --> worker. I typically play either emperor or immortal so if I want a reliable stonehenge on that difficulty, I'd better get it fast... I usually get it around 2300-2700bc.

    And what else are you going to build as your capitol city grows? a bunch of warriors i guess? I usually grow to size 5 or 6 in my capitol before building any settlers, might as well build stonehenge while i'm growing. It usually finishes about the same time i hit size 6, or in about 5 turns after i hit 5, if i can only grow to size 5 (due to no luxury resource or charismatic)

    Anyway, the "stonehenge = 120 hammers = 4 monuments" math is COMPLETELY missing the point. It's so much better than monuments because it instantly gives culture to new cities. It takes forever to build a monument in new cities unless you want to chop rush every single one, so you have to wait ~15 turns for the monument and then another 10 turns for the culture to kick in. So 25 turns alter you finally get access to that stupid fish or gold mine or whatever you need. Also the +2 great person is really nice, you get a great priest at like 700bc, the +5 gold/turn from the great priest really helps your econ. I usually go full warmonger after stonehenge plus a couple libraries with scientist specialists to teach me construction, so I'm often at 0% research and short cash to pay for upkeep for all my units and all the cities i capture.

    and as for all the people saying "Early hammers are worth more than later"--That isn't really true until you get the techs you need to build something worthwhile with those hammers. this isn't civilization 2. The main bottleneck for the very early game isn't hammers, its tech, and early cities cost as much in maintenance as they produce, so its not like you're going to be ahead in tech if you spam settlers instead of growing your capitol city. From this perspective, stonehenge only sets you back the small amount of tech needed for mysticism, assuming your civ doesn't start with it.
     
  10. civtilidy

    civtilidy Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2014
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    200
    Location:
    Sweden
    Agree woth nate45, especially on bigger maps and IND. Im sure it always pays of because:
    1. earlier culture+hammersaving
    2. GP+theo=techtrade+christ+shrine+AP(monopoly on +4production/city)
     
  11. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Jan 1, 2006
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    Finland
    In my view Stonehenge is the weakest one of the early wonders and it simply slows you down in the most important part of the game.

    Culture in new cities is not worthless, but you can certainly live without it. Settling in a manner that puts food to the first ring is never hard. Not every city needs a monument.

    I play only normal speed, standard size maps. Very comfortable on immortal and have beaten deity a few times as well in case someone cares.
     
  12. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Only time I might build Stonehenge is in an OCC game. Otherwise it is a fail gold OP if IND or I somehow get stone before it is built.
     

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