When should a GP Farm really get going?

[Rusten]

Only wanted to illustrate that GPP isn't matched by anything in terms of beaker output before liberalism. You can choose to lightbulb or settle with representation and race ahead.

Took another screen a couple of turns later to emphasise the GPP part.
14 hammers and 357 beakers per turn from specialists.

Spoiler :

Granary/lighthouse is a no-brainer.

GPP is best early on because other improvements still lack their boosts whereas pacifism is available early.

 

[Fluxx]

^^

Representation

5 scientists = 30 beakers

2 settled GS = 18 beakers

1 settled GE = 6 beakers

for a total of 54 beakers. Running on 100%gold.

total beaker output of city 357 beakers.

you got a 700% multiplier on research in that city??

 

[Rusten]

See the pop-up? It's 5 settled GS, 2 scientists from GL and 3 settled GE.

 

[fed1943]

Putting first things first the GP Farm needs high food.
And high food from few tiles. Both 4 floodplains or 2 pigs can make 8 food surplus, but the last is
very good for a GP Farm, the former not so.

 

[Freedom]

^^

Representation

5 scientists = 30 beakers

2 settled GS = 18 beakers

1 settled GE = 6 beakers

for a total of 54 beakers. Running on 100%gold.

total beaker output of city 357 beakers.

you got a 700% multiplier on research in that city??

What do you plan to do with this lead though? Whenever I run an economy similar to the one you displayed, I don't know how to turn that early game advantage into a win. A spectacular early game doesn't mean as much if you can't compete later in the game due a lack of infra.

 

[Fluxx]

What do you plan to do with this lead though? Whenever I run an economy similar to the one you displayed, I don't know how to turn that early game advantage into a win. A spectacular early game doesn't mean as much if you can't compete later in the game due a lack of infra.

He has cavalry at 700 AD. That pretty much means instawin

 

[bestsss]

Great scientists/engineer settling similar to OCC is quite power but big gamble to pull off.
What I dont get: why the heck is the dude building culture

 

[Rusten]

I set the slider to 0 and build to culture to not mix up where the science came from, obviously it's not what I did in the game.

Converting to win: Workshops (SP).

 

[futurehermit]

National Epic
Pacificism (bulb Philosophy or build Sh. P.)

 

[tibbles]

Pacifism, that's one I need to remember to run more often. I used to run it all the time, then I started forcing myself to be more of a warmonger and sometimes forget to turn it on.

That's an impressive amount of gp by 700ad in that screenshot.

I'm not philo, but I'm still working towards only number 2 at 500ad in my new game But this time I'm going to make an effort to leverage them. I build 'Mids (kinda wanted the gold due to strikepoint overexpansion, but ended up with the wonder), running caste, and conquered a city with 4 5+food tiles. If any map needs to leverage specialists, it's this one. My continent is like 2/3 plains tiles :S

 

[Gumbolt]

Pacifism, that's one I need to remember to run more often. I used to run it all the time, then I started forcing myself to be more of a warmonger and sometimes forget to turn it on.

That's an impressive amount of gp by 700ad in that screenshot.

I'm not philo, but I'm still working towards only number 2 at 500ad in my new game But this time I'm going to make an effort to leverage them. I build 'Mids (kinda wanted the gold due to strikepoint overexpansion, but ended up with the wonder), running caste, and conquered a city with 4 5+food tiles. If any map needs to leverage specialists, it's this one. My continent is like 2/3 plains tiles :S

I like it but remember its high cost to run and other religious civics give you 25% on production. After a certain point great people take 20-30+ turns just to get one.

 

[futurehermit]

Pacificism is no cost and only costs you based on your military. Yes, if you are warmongering, it can be costly, but if it helps you crank out 3-6 GSs for a deep liberalism beeline then it is certainly worth it. It is strongest in the 1st 1/2 of the game, certainly.

 

[UncleJJ]

Pacifism is great ... except it is a religious civic, which means you need a state religion (can have diplomatic consequences) and the cities where you want the GPP benefit need to have that religion spread to them for it to be of any use. That often means missionaries and unless you build them under OR they need monasteries. All of that can be made to work, but people should not underestimate the amount of time and trouble it can take to set those circumstances up. Pacifism is not a simple, cheap or trouble free way to boost your GPP production. It is not simply a civic it is a whole way to plan and organise your empire.

 

[jauggy]

How many units would you need to have until pacifism is no longer a viable choice? I generally have unit cost at about 20 (after taking into account free units). Still worth it?

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Eh, on Monarch and below, there is no need to bulb all those techs. Bulbing Philo and most of Education is all you really need to grab Liberalism pretty far ahead of the AI. Honestly, I've been able to grab Steel sometimes with just those 2 bulbs. On emperor+ I imagine bulbing the techs may be more necessary but only if you want to grab an advanced tech for free. If going for nationalism or astronomy, I honestly don't see the need to bulb Paper. I'd rather use the interim GS for an Academy. Paper's too cheap to bulb since the AI doesn't prioritize it. Then again, I've never played deity

 

[sherbz]

I think there are two things which impact upon the effectiveness of caste system. The first is whether you managed to get pyramids or not (i generally dont unless i have stone). The second is your leader traits. Being spiritual has good synergy with caste system. because you can usually revolt whenever you need to whip (this can mean you saving city which you would otherwise lose due to the AI declaring). If you are not spiritual then caste becomes risky. The real benefit of caste IMO is that it allows you to target what type of GP you want better than anything else. If I dont run caste then i just let my GP farm dilute so that i dont know what I wil get when they do pop. By the time I have built the various buildings is usually the time i can afford to run the specialists. I also have a selective use of the whip. Unless i literally have an abundance of food i tend not to whip out more than my immediate infrastructure. monuments, libraries, courthouses are all fine, as are emergency infrastructure like barracks and walls if you need them. But other stuff (i usually whip 1 market place and sometimes a forge) often costs too much and hurts my ability to expand. I prefer using caste a little bit after i first gain access to the civic (i find this with most civics as it happens....apart from emancipation). My empire is usually pretty much ok around civil service time and i have my army, key infrastructure and cities in place. Then i revolt to caste because my economy can cope with the tech hit if i want to change all of my scientists round to merchants or artists.

Ive usually spawned quite a few great scientists by this point though. Even without philosophical, having 4 scientist specialists in ure GP farm (which can be your science city i find if space is a prioblem) churns em out.

 

[hallihallo]

how did that guy managed to get so quickly to rifling by 710 ad?!?!? Im just a casual player who usually does noble, but thats baffling to me :S what were the settings for that particular game, tech lining etc.

thanks!

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

On noble, the AI techs too slowly to allow for a lot of tech trades. On the higher levels, you will engage in a LOT of tech trading (as the AI does) and so tech tree advancement is pushed up WAY faster. However, that is quite an early date even with all the tech trading happening. Some games just have extremely fast teching rates (for example having all the tech whores in the same game and very few wars).

 

[Lansky]

Exactly, at the higher levels the AI is more of a help in teching. It becomes more about slowing the AI down than speeding yourself up - at least for me. It's a strange feeling as you get to a new level and think "Oh man rifling at 950AD I'm unstoppable!" and then in 5 turns the AI you want to attack has grenadiers. I highly doubt Rusten had this issue with Cavalry however. Man those things are beasts.

Regarding Caste System I find it most useful to time your 2nd GS to bulb Philo for Pacifism around the time you get CS. In an ideal world you have the GM from music and start a golden age. Use caste to an extreme wherever you have the NE, and hopefully GL, and in the time frame of the Golden Age you can commonly get 2 more GS and then if it is more fitting to the empire jump back into Slavery and OR in order to whip in Universities asap to start on Oxford. This is a super ideal situation for a general type of game for me. Hardly fits every situation.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Ooooooh, me gusta this idea Lansky. Will try in my current Alexander game (still in the BCs)