When to build trading posts?

[dudeman2491]

During some starts(especially ones with no rivers) I find myself with negative money with four initial cities with trading routes and banks already up. I'm curious as to where and how many trading posts I should build.

In what situations and on what tiles would you build trading posts and how many posts are necessary? In both scenarios of a river start and a non-river start. In general, if I were to settle four initial cities, what is the value of net gold income should I be aiming for and does this determine the location and number of trading posts that I build.

thanks

 

[Monthar]

I've been going with farms everywhere possible and the tradition tree to grow my population. I'll also trade luxuries for GPT instead of cash. I set the cities to focus on food and manually select a gold heavy tile for them to work. this usually takes care of my gold problems.

I do mine most of my hills. However, if go rationalism I'll put up trade posts on hills aren't on a river/lake, ie. those that can't be farmed, and any desert tiles to get the bonus science output.

I tend to save the trading posts for puppeted cities.

The only place I always put a trade post is a jungle that doesn't have a resource since these tiles give a science bonus if you have a university in the city that is working that tile.

 

[apocalypse105]

Well you allways have to find a balance if you have a cite that has a lot of cows( a lot of food) and some deer you can easy make some tiles aside the river a trading post.

If you have an iron resource and some other mountains you can make some trading posts onto a mountain.
Same goes when you have a lot of mountains turned into mines you dont need lumbermils so make of that trading posts.

Sow you need to search what I have enoug in my citie if it food then you can easy put some trading post next to a river and so on...

I allways make a balance if i have hills neer my border i make one a mine and a other trading post because sow when i put production focus i get extra gold but still decent production.

Same goes with food make balance.. If you see a tile with 2 food making a trading post on it isnt a bad idee but dont overdue it because you need the extra food from farms...

Sow find a balance see what do i have enoug and then tradin post it. But dont overdue this i have maximum 2 trading post in my citie radious. To get gold let your citicens work luxury resources


Oh yeah with a puppet citie you want most of the tiles trading posts and some farms to grow (because you cant choise production and want to get money from the citie)

 

[Tabarnak]

Here is a scenario :

Civil Service discovered
Currency discovered
Economics discovered

City is on a riversided tile. A market is built.

Riversided grassland tile,

with a farm : 4F,1G --->merchant hired gives +3G and -2F--->farm gives 2F,4G
with a TP : 2F, 3G

Before economics but after civil service it's better to hire a merchant and work a riversided grassland farmed tile. Later, with economics and more population(and keep growing), it's better to work a TP. For the first waves of GPs, it's efficient to hire a merchant and bulb many GPs at once.

Trading posts are nice after economics, when cities have growed enough to work some without crippling GPs hiring, hammers and growth. Maintenance is higher too.

Oh and like someone said TPs are nice for puppets's population control.

 

[Monthar]

Here is a scenario :

Civil Service discovered
Currency discovered
Economics discovered

City is on a riversided tile. A market is built.

Riversided grassland tile,

with a farm : 4F,1G --->merchant hired gives +3G and -2F--->farm gives 2F,4G
with a TP : 2F, 3G

Before economics but after civil service it's better to hire a merchant and work a riversided grassland farmed tile. Later, with economics and more population(and keep growing), it's better to work a TP. For the first waves of GPs, it's efficient to hire a merchant and bulb many GPs at once.

Trading posts are nice after economics, when cities have growed enough to work some without crippling GPs hiring, hammers and growth. Maintenance is higher too.

Oh and like someone said TPs are nice for puppets's population control.

If you take Freedom and Civil Society you can then run 2 merchants with the 4 food from that farm which then gives you a total of 5 gold, 1 happiness and 6 GPP. The farm still always gives 4 food 1 gold. Specialist only give 2 gold per slot, not 3 before the multipliers. They do give 3 GPP each.

With all farms you can work more of the mines and run more specialists. This has the added benefit of faster research, more GP, higher production, stronger city defense, etc. due to the higher population.

 

[wannabewarlord]

I'll also trade luxuries for GPT instead of cash.

What's the rationale for that? Correct me if I am wrong, but the AI doesn't give you more in GPT than in cash, so there's no economic reason to do that.

Cash upfront gives you the chance to rush buy stuff, ally with CS (which in turn give you new luxuries) plus it is cash in your pocket. Should the AI DOW on you or you lose your luxury, your GPT is gone. So unless I am missing something here, selling luxuries for GPT is definitely inferior.

 

[Bibor]

What's the rationale for that? Correct me if I am wrong, but the AI doesn't give you more in GPT than in cash, so there's no economic reason to do that.

Sometimes AI's don't have lump sums available.

Trading posts? As people said, puppet growth control (tradepost everything). For own cities, mostly I don't TP, except in rare cases when I have more than 3 own cities. Even then, going farms + Freedom + specialists might be better.

 

[wannabewarlord]

Sometimes AI's don't have lump sums available.

True. Maybe I misunderstood the poster then and he meant "if no cash is available, I will also opt for GPT".

On topic: I rarely built TPs as I rarely have gold problems that I cannot fix with a trade route or a gold multiplier building or selling luxuries to cover short term negatives. Judging from some of the answers here, it is probably something I should start doing later in the game or for puppets.

 

[roguepro92]

if you have money problems just try domination
get to LS and start taking every city and puppet them into trade post.

even in my current game in which im india and my only 3 cities are all 20+ pop. im still positive in gold without a single trade post.
4puppet cities with all trade post feeds everything

having good diplomatic relationship is probably the best way to get money like everyone said
sell sell sell.

 

[Tabarnak]

If you take Freedom and Civil Society you can then run 2 merchants with the 4 food from that farm which then gives you a total of 5 gold, 1 happiness and 6 GPP. The farm still always gives 4 food 1 gold. Specialist only give 2 gold per slot, not 3 before the multipliers. They do give 3 GPP each.

Yeah that's right. Was from memory only. You need to be in ren. era and take 2 policies to get bonuses from freedom. Before economics, it's still viable to run a great merchant since it gives same gold than a post-economics TP, combined with a post-civil service farmed riversided tile for sure. But if trading luxuries can get you very rich, a great merchant is somewhat less attractive. Very situational.

 

[AznWarlord]

Getting Landed Elite, Granary, and if next to a river, Water Mill, allows for several grasslands/plains to be replaced with trading posts. A market then exponentially increases your gpt.

 

[MadDjinn]

If you don't have rivers, you'll need a few TPs or just sell lux for gpt rather than lump sum. grassland TPs is my preference.

I see this more often, especially if you have lots of cows. So do try to settle at least 2/4 cities by the river, preferably more, since when you work the river tiles for food, you'll still generate gold.

 

[joncnunn]

Well, my standard tactic for dealing with a no river start is hit the restart button while it's still 4000 BC.

As for with rivers:
I'll farm the no resource hills that are along the rivers and mine the ones not along the river.

I usually also farm no resource plains (rivers much higher priority than non river).

But as for no resource grassland & floodplains, I usually trade post them, but this is a low priority to me even if on the river and ultra-low when not.

For food, I have Water Mills + Granary + Landed Elite and often Martime allies.

During some starts(especially ones with no rivers) I find myself with negative money with four initial cities with trading routes and banks already up. I'm curious as to where and how many trading posts I should build.

In what situations and on what tiles would you build trading posts and how many posts are necessary? In both scenarios of a river start and a non-river start. In general, if I were to settle four initial cities, what is the value of net gold income should I be aiming for and does this determine the location and number of trading posts that I build.

thanks

 

[Acidrain]

I build trading posts usually only on non-river grassland, if I need gold. Farm everything else, except hills, mine hills. River tiles give bonus for farms with civil service, trading posts dont. So yeah farming river tiles seems always better.

Before civil service farm and trading post is equal on river, but usually you dont need any trading posts before civil service... luxury resources and selling open borders/luxury resources do the gold part.

 

[pspboy7]

Bibor is right, farms + Freedom & specilists is far superior to trade posting your cities. Not to say I've never tinkered with it, but you need growth to maintain your empire. A slow growth empire starts to run out of money cause your maintenance costs outgrow your population wealth factors too quickly. Most people end up being a little aggressive and they should trade post their puppet cities rather than their core cities anyways.