When will AI sue for peace?

Genghis_Sean

High School English teacher
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My democracy was attacked by the Byzantines. I few turns later, the Zulus signed a MA with them and also attacked me. After eliminating the invading Byzantine forces over several turns, I was able to sign a peace treaty with them. However, the Zulus refuse to talk to me.

They had the most territory of any civ in the game, and I've taken probably 20 of their cities, crippling their military, yet they refuse to speak to me. Now, I've had to set my science to zero and crank up my luxuries to 80% to keep my citizens happy. I considered changing governments to Communism so I wouldn't have to worry about war weariness, but it takes 7 turns. Surely, they would want peace by then? I've been kicking Zulu butt for about 10 turns now, their kingdom is overrun, but they still won't talk to me! It's brought my science research to a standstill. Any suggestions? I can't think what the Zulus are waiting for? Perhaps they realize that my people are protesting, but their people are all dying to my tanks. It only makes sense for them to sue for peace. I've not razed any cities either, having turned culture flip off. Any suggestions?

Genghis-Sean
 
The Zulus probably won't talk until either:

1 - They send their forces 2 tiles into your territory.
2 - You defeat a few of their troops.
3 - You take a couple of cities.
4 - Atleast 3-5 turns. (Although, I've had an AI want peace 1 turn after they declared war when I took 90% of their cities.)
 
Wow, that's weird - I can normally get peace with an enemy AI after being at war for 4-5 turns.. Especially after taking a few cities - but you've taken half their empire!?

Normally when war weariness is ruining my civilization to the point you've reached, I set the Luxury slider to 0, and make the citizens entertainers instead. Your population WILL starve this way, but in the later parts of the game (which I assume you're in), this isn't too troublesome.
Starvation is better than a stagnating research imo.
 
My suggestion is to crank some science research back on and take all of those unhappy citizens and turn them into scientists. Yes, your population will go way down, but the Zulu will realize (i.e. the AI will realize) that you intend to go the whole distance. Another technique will be to bomb their infrastructure and station troops in their territory without taking any cities. This will leave Shaka with the problem that he will have unruly citizens and have a threat of loss of cities. The AI seems to respond to threat more than to losses (i.e. If you can take his cities, he is more reasonable than if you did take his cities).
 
From what I have noticed, correct me if I'm wrong, war weariness only increases when you have units in the enemy civs territory or when you attack an enemy unit whether it is in your territory or not. If you leave your units in your territory, war weariness will not increase.
 
@ramos. Thats my understanding
I love to make phony war in the beginning ancient I usually got tech for peace without even sending a unit (emperor or lower), and during despotism no ww, most likely soldier foot, no road. So 4-5 turns would pass very fast. The longer u wait, the more AI would seek for peace (but dont do it too long, otherwise knight might come to visit your town :D). In my current game, monarch Germany, I was the first to get middle ages (got free monotheism, and currently searching feudalism for 7 turns), and what I purely got only Alphabet all the way to literatur (and I just got GLib), the rest of the techs, I got free by using phony war :D
 
War weariness will take a huge jump after you _lose_ a city.

Also, to the original poster, I have the question: Have you ever been at war with the Zulu before? The first time you go to war with a civ, and either you are winning or it's a draw, you can get peace after 4-5 turns. If you continue going to war with them, the length of time they will talk to you under these conditions (YMMV) goes up.

It's sort of a once bitten, twice shy rule. You only get a quickie war once. (Unless the second time you are mopping the floor wiht them...I lost democracy into anarchy one time because a civ wouldn't talk with me, and had to take enough cities for them to talk to me (they had about 6 left.)
 
Originally posted by Ranos
From what I have noticed, correct me if I'm wrong, war weariness only increases when you have units in the enemy civs territory or when you attack an enemy unit whether it is in your territory or not. If you leave your units in your territory, war weariness will not increase.

You might have a point, but this isn't the main catalyst for war weariness.

The main reasons your citizens are rioting on you:
- Enemy units in your territory
- Losing cities
- Losing units
- Enemy pillaging your improvements.

There's an excellent article in the War Academy on WW, you should definitely give it a read :)
 
The main reasons your citizens are rioting on you:
- Enemy units in your territory
- Losing cities
- Losing units
- Enemy pillaging your improvements.

If that is all that it takes to cause war weariness, then why does my war weariness increase when I'm attacking the enemies cities and not losing one single unit?
 
Originally posted by Berrern
The main reasons your citizens are rioting on you:
- Enemy units in your territory
...
I would rather say your units in enemy territory. Enemy in your territory might prevent ww reduction, but will not cause more.

I will also add getting attacked in the list (no mather result of combat).
 
Originally posted by Ranos
If that is all that it takes to cause war weariness, then why does my war weariness increase when I'm attacking the enemies cities and not losing one single unit?

I never said that these reasons are all factors causing war weariness - but they are the factors that makes WW rise most.
Like I said, read the article, it gives great info about WW :)

Oystein: Are you sure that enemy units in your territory doesn't cause war weariness to rise? I'm not so sure - if they're too close to your cities they render a city tile useless (as no-one can work it).
 
It sounds like the Zulu didn't like you very much in the first place.

Why not entertainers? I've never had lux past 40.

Why not keep taking their cities? You can handle the weariness if you already have the troops. Anarchy would not be so bad, either, especially w/o culture flips.

Who has suffrage? May as well go take it if Shaka has it.
 
I've given up. The Zulu aren't making peace with me, and it will take way too long to conquer them. I'm reloading and trying it again as a Communist government. I've taken like 15 cities of theirs, lost hardly any troops, no cities, but they still won't talk to me. Heck the Byzantines agreed to peace in return for Atomic Energy, and they gave me 311 gold/turn. I never took a single city of theirs. Maybe by overrunning the Zulus, I ticked them off.
It's been like 10 turns of war, and the Zulus still won't speak to me.

Genghis-Sean
 
No need to give up or reload mate!

Just use entertainers instead of the Luxury slider - your civilization can take serveral turns of starvation without problems! :)
 
Originally posted by Berrern
Oystein: Are you sure that enemy units in your territory doesn't cause war weariness to rise? I'm not so sure - if they're too close to your cities they render a city tile useless (as no-one can work it).
Yes, Im sure. As you mention, an enemy can make a city tile useless. But that has nothing to do with ww.
 
Okay, I reloaded and tried pursuing this war with Communism and I determined that Democracy is better, even with war weariness. Here's the transcript of an email I sent my best friend fellow Civ player. He has not yet bought the Conqueror's expansion...


Tried reloading my game and rather than out waiting the Zulus who wouldn't talk to me, I switched to Communism. Seven turns later I was out of anarchy, I had no war weariness at all, and I was free to pursue war as long as I wanted. However, this government did not have the economic payoff of a democracy. Because I wasn't bringing in nearly as much capital, I was forced to reduce my science output because I could not afford to keep it at its previous level. Suddenly, it was taking me 7 turns to research a tech instead of 4-5. I decided to reload my previous game and continue playing as a democracy. Because of the
anarchy that resulted from switching governments, I had made much more progress as a democracy fighting war weariness anyway.

A few turns later, the Zulus agreed to make peace with me. I had left them the core of their best cities, but I had taken 3/5 of their empire from them, though many of them were smaller cities.

I had done something else while at war that I had never done before. You can set your government to mobilize for war. What this basically means is that your production speeds up across the length of your empire. I think you gain an extra shield for each citizen that is working when you activate mobilization. The downside is that every city has to be working on military units or buildings. This hampers you somewhat because you can't build temples or courthouses in any newly taken cities. Also, the only way you can cancel mobilization is by making peace or annihilating your opponent. Still, the benefits outweighed the detriments, and I might very well do it again if I become embroiled in a long war. (Note: I always turn culture-flip off)

Once I was at peace, I spent a few turns and had all my fully developed cities(20+) add recycling centers and coliseums. I had just learned Recycling, and I finally decided that coliseums were worth their upkeep cost. Besides, the computer always built them, and your score is based on citizen happiness. Then, I started cranking out mechanized infantry until I had garrisoned every city in my new empire. Many of the cities I took from the Zulus were undefended. I'd stacked all the armor I had
in the world on one square so it was for offense only, and I wanted to know where to find it.

Now, I wanted to take out another civ before they gained the technology to make it more difficult. I decided on the French. They were closest and had not yet modernized their army beyond riflemen. (And they are cheese-eating surrender-monkeys anyway). I checked with my foreign minister and discovered that France's Mutual Protection Pact with the Byzantines had expired and hadn't been renewed. I scanned the world for any remote cities they owned and found three. France was to the northwest of my empire, but they had two small cities to the south, and a single city far, far away to the southwest, past the entire Japanese empire. My fear was that I'd defeat them quickly, and then find a remote city that I couldn't reach. The AI would then refuse to make peace and my economy would fall apart again out of war weariness.

I signed a Right-of-Passage agreement with the Japanese, who were always traipsing across my empire anyway. Then, I sent an Army with 4 elite Modern Armor units in it through their territory to the isolated French city, and a small force of 2 tanks and 2 infantry to their other two smaller cities. I moved all my remaining armor by rail to the outskirts of the French empire. I demanded they give me all their gold (2000), but they refused, so I attacked. I made sure to build railroads as I went, moving in my hordes of workers from around my empire. I did not eliminate every unit, but bypassed the remnants, concentrating only on taking every city in one turn. I couldn't do it, but I sent my remaining undamaged armor close enough to the remaining cities to take them on the following turn. I was able to eliminate the French in only two turns (fairly accurate historically), though I had a brief moment of panic when they weren't eliminated after I took their last city. It turned out they had two settlers hidden under a couple riflemen I had missed. Once I eliminated them, the war was over.

Now it's just me, the Japanese, the battered Zulu, and the vast
Byzantine empire with 250+ infantry units (I snuck a spy into their
kingdom). Once the Byzantines are overcome, which will require I build a great deal more armor, the game will essentially be over. They don't have tanks yet, either, but it can't be far off.

Genghis-Sean
 
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