Where'd the 3.13 change list thread go?

[Shigga]

The funny thing is, as soon as the patch ist out ppl will be meek as sheep and really polite to each other largely b/c they won't have time for petty bickering any more since BtS will hugely draw on resources ^^

 

[JFLNYC]

No however twisted view of "seller-customer relations" can relieve people of the simple, universal duty to act respectfully towards each other. You try to construe a situation in which you can act however you want (because you are the "customer"), but the other party is bound by its duty to serve you (because he is the "seller"). That's just a cheesy way of removing yourself from your responsibility to, well, behave, while still imposing this responsibility on others.

I'm serving over hundred customers a day, and if one of them shows the behavior that I've seen here, I simply make him leave the shop. They pay for my services, they do get those. I will listen to any complaint and try to offer solutions. But no customer of mine has earned the right to insult me, attack me, approach me in an aggresiive or disrespectful manner, or cry havoc in my shop without making any effort to solve the problem. Sorry. If that happens, they leave. Surprisingly, we are not only still in business - I also found out that the *other* customers were always thankful when I removed a troublemaker from the shop. Usually I even get a lot of supportive remarks after doing so. Because for some strange reason, the other customers seem to think that some basic manners should be adhered to even when being a customer. Strange, isn't it?


That's your assertion that I confuse the two. Actually I consciously wrote about the lacking respect because if people had only *criticized*, I wouldn't have said anything at all. It was the relentless, disrespectful and personal manner in which the criticism was delivered, as well as the tendency to extend the criticism to *everything* available, that disappointed me.



This is not a rebellion. You aren't Spartacus. There is no evil dictator to dispose. We aren't discussing the political and sociological needs of world, we are discussing how a game company and its customers can work together so that all sides gain the most out of their interaction.

If you think that the only alternatives in human interaction are to be either obsequious or rebellious, then you've got a lot to learn. Most of the time neither behavior yields the best outcome. On the contrary - the best results can usually be achieved when people of different groups meet together in an atmosphere of mutual respect, discuss their needs and wishes in a constructive way, and try to understand each other. *Then* problems can get solved.

If you want to play rebellion instead, I wished you looked for a different playground.



This is getting ridiculous now. Do you really live in such a self-styled "rebellious hero" world? Do you really, honestly believe that you are fulfilling a "duty" here to "speak out" because *you* have been "abused"?

Well, let me ask you one question: What positive effect have your actions had? Name a single one please. (We don't need to talk about the *negative* effects, I think those are pretty obvious anyway.) And that's what I was trying to say in all of my last posts: It absolutely does not matter whether you're a glorious, upright rebel or a mischievous troublemaker or anything in between. The *result* of your actions was devastating, no matter what your intentions were. I have tried to bring the discussion to something that *might* improve this disastrous result (i.e. thinking about how we can increase the likelihood of getting inside information again), and all you think about is whether *your* actions were justified, whether it was *your* duty to "speak up", whether *you* have been abused, and so on. Do yourself a favor and stop thinking about yourself for a minute and offer any suggestion to improve the situation. And I mean a *workable*, concrete suggestion for the problem at hand, not just some overgeneralized "more people must speak up" pseudo-rebellion talk.

Can you do that? Can you, actually, work towards a solution instead of either attacking others or justifying your actions after they have caused grief? I'm skeptical. More and more I get the impression that trying to reason with you is just an exercise in futility.

You are way, way over the line. Go pick a fight with someone else.

 

[Minoan]

Why does the word "fanatics" suddenly seem so appropriate? :O

 

[Dagta]

I've been playing v3.03 (yes the buggy one) since it was released and I find the game very playable.

Relax, go play a few games, get some work done, and the patch will be out when it's ready.

If the game were unplayable, I could see people getting upset, but right now this is ridiculous.

 

[Psyringe]

You are way, way over the line. Go pick a fight with someone else.

I'm not even looking for a fight. I asked you for a workable, concrete suggestion to improve the situation at hand. All I get is the answer above. Seems as if my scepticism was well-founded, unfortunately.

 

[UnspokenRequest]

I'm not even looking for a fight.

The rest of this short post (as the tone in your replies to JFLNYC) says otherwise:

I asked you for a workable, concrete suggestion to improve the situation at hand. All I get is the answer above. Seems as if my scepticism was well-founded, unfortunately.

The part in bold sounds like clear taunting to me. This is the kind of remark many argumentative people (I am of this sort) would take issue at. So, if you're not looking for a fight, it seems your hands on the keyboard think otherwise.

I's not a flame war here yet (well, I don't think so), but there is a lot of tension still. So, let's all calm down again please. The patch will be out soon.

Sorry if I sound like a mod. But, I couldn't help but put bring your attention to the obvious contradiction in your post.

Just to bring the conversation to another subject, what kind of game will you all play once the patch is out, which leader, on what type of map, etc?
On my part, I think I'll start by choosing which will enable me to make out the most of the modifications on the corporation system. I haven't entirely made up my mind about which leader though.
An archipelago map would be nice to try too, Since the blitz promotion will now be available to ships!!!

 

[mrwhite89]

An archipelago map would be nice to try too, Since the blitz promotion will now be available to ships!!!

Try the Dutch Mr. Van Oranje is the king of the island map! Great UB and very under-rated UU. I haven't played as anyone else since BTS came out.

 

[Adam7Eight]

Right, so let's just change the subject...

So, who thinks the patch is actually going to come out today?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.


Ships with Blitz... I'm almost at the point where I want to build a navy.

 

[Psyringe]

The part in bold sounds like clear taunting to me. This is the kind of remark many argumentative people (I am of this sort) would take issue at. So, if you're not looking for a fight, it seems you hands on the keyboard think otherwise.

Not really. If I were looking for a fight, I had taken it to PM. I *am* looking for ways to make Firaxians (including Alexman) *want* to come here and share information again. I did ask NYC for suggestions. I didn't get any, so I voiced my disappointment. I'm not looking for a fight, I'm looking for an answer.

If NYC regards it as a taunt (which I don't know), he's free to call it that, or report my post, or contact me via PM asking me to retract the sentence. I wouldn't cling to this remark anyways, as I'm (like I said) looking for answers. I'd *happily* concede that I was wrong if I *did* get a workable, concrete suggestion about what we can do to make Firaxians want to come here again.

Just to bring the conversation to another subject, what kind of game will you play once the patch is out, which leader, on what type of map, etc?
On my part, I think I'll start by choosing which will enable me to make out the most of the modifications on the corporation system. I haven't entirely made up my mind about which leader though

I'll wait until Lt.Bob updates his 40-playable-civs mod, then start a game with FexFX's mod (bigger map, better time-scaling), random leader as usual, fractal map. I'm thinking about using "Big and Small", or a random map type, but will probably wait for the next game after that with that.

 

[UnspokenRequest]

Try the Dutch Mr. Van Oranje is the king of the island map! Great UB and very under-rated UU. I haven't played as anyone else since BTS came out.

Thanks for the suggestion. This leader and map setting has been on my list for a while, as something that I have to try. Everyone tells me he is absolutely powerful on archipelago maps. Almost overpowered. That is a good suggestion.

@Psyringe
Well. It's easy to misinterpret someone's intention on the Internet. My mistake.

For your game. That is interesting. I never tried this mod. I'm particularly interested by the "better time-scaling". I'll go check it out.

 

[Ansible]

Gents,

Sorry to interrupt the battle , but if anyone is interesting in trying out a game with some of the v3.13 changes, give this mod a try:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=238442

It contains the following patch changes:
*Customs House and Feitoria give +100% Foreign trade route income
*Corporation Headquarters give 4 gold per corporation city to balance corporation immunity to inflation
*Military Science moved to Renaissance
*Unlimited Corporate Executives now allowed
*Blitz promotion available to ships
*Frigate and Ship of the Line bombardment ignores Walls and Castles
*Paratroopers have 25% evasion chance
*Ger obsoletes with Advanced Flight (like Stable)
*Mind control center reduces production by 15% (was 25%)
*Added Solver's events (Thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=234527)
*Added Solver's Unofficial BtS Patch (Thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=235067)

Note: I've added a few late game techs and units, but nothing that radically changes gameplay

Enjoy,

Ansible

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Remember that Alex posted the changelog on his own, not as a Firaxis employee. Yes, he more than likely received authorization to post it, but he did so not as a Firaxian. Also consider this, just because they allowed him to post the changelog, doesn't mean they're going to allow him to post updates. Who is to say Firaxis hasn't instructed him to stop releasing information. If that is the case, do you actually think he'd be allowed to post that he's isn't allowed too?

Can you also think of a good reason for his removing his thanks to all the feedback from Civfanatics.com, except pique?

 

[Bhruic]

Can you also think of a good reason for his removing his thanks to all the feedback from Civfanatics.com, except pique?

I can think of a few. He might have been ordered to remove it by his superiors. He might have decided it constituted out-dated information that would confuse people. He might have decided it was causing too much dissention.

Or it might have been none of those. Being unable to think of a good reason doesn't mean there isn't one, it just means we aren't aware of it.

Bh

 

[Öjevind Lång]

^^

Huyana Capac tentatively clung to life. Though his body was ravaged by plague, through sheer force of will he refused to allow himself to die.

"I must live to see BTS v3.13, even if only once!", he thought to himself. "If I don't last, then I will have dishonored the great name of Capac!"

Earlier, Huyana had been offered a tantalizing glimpse of his coveted Civ Patch. In the end, however, it had merely been a mirage. "The Gods are testing my resolve!", thought Huyana, as he spat in disgust.

As the weeks rolled by, Huyana's sleep was disturbed by strange dreams and feverish visions. He found it increasingly difficult to distinguish between reality and terrifying delusion. Corporate logos and forum avatars raced through his mind and were supplemented by eerie disembodied voices discussing back-dated stock options and calling each other "Trolls". The voices laughed at him, admonished him, pointed out that he was wearing a hat made of sausage. In the background, haunting circus music could be heard, and Huyana found it to be most unsettling.

"Sid!!!! Help me Sid I need you!!" cried the once mighty Huyana Capac. His body trembled and tears rolled down his face. "I've waited so long and now the plague has overtaken my mind! But you'll help me, won't you Sid?" Huyana began to laugh maniacally.

"Why is he begging assistance from my lawn gnome," thought a perplexed William Van Oranje. Of course, being dutch, William Van Oranje was no stranger to bizarre displays of public hallucination. "For your information, his NAME, is Admiral Fezzywinkle. You would be wise to show him proper respect."

Ignoring him completely, Huyana was focused on the voices in his head. "TROLL!! It's a noun! I know it, not a verb, a noun! I must have really lost it..." Huyana's sentence trailed off into a murmur, then degraded further into little more than a whimper.

William Van Oranje shook his head and walked away sadly.

*Clap* *Clap* *Clap*

Brilliant

 

[entwood]

I received a trolling warning (which I graciously accept) for a comment I made yesterday. That being said, I humbly request the thread be reviewed and all appropriate warnings and punishments be delivered from a line by line, post for post review, or perhaps it starts now and nothing is retroactive. I cannot say if the moderators were paying close attention to each and every post. So be that. I plead no contest.

I will say this with trepidation and I mean no offense.

If the original post was informal, a personal opinion, and not company sponsored (which I say is true but leave it here as an IF) then...

Might that not be construed as 'bothering' the forum with less than official, unsubtantiated information or, at least, something that should have been followed-up on in a reasonable way, given the special circumstances, in the same spirit as it was delivered instead of what actually occurred.

I say all this with no ill-will to any person or entity and you may call it a theoretical question.

Otherwise, are we not playing "favorites" in some manner.

Moderator Action: Warned! - PDMA. If you have a problem with an action taken against you, or any other problem, please do so via PM rather than the public forums.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Öjevind Lång]

I can think of a few. He might have been ordered to remove it by his superiors. He might have decided it constituted out-dated information that would confuse people. He might have decided it was causing too much dissention.Bh

Those are extremely feeble suggestions. Anyway, I'll leave this discussion now. Let's hope that when the patch does turn up, it will be a good one.

 

[Psyringe]

Well. It's easy to misinterpret someone's intention on the Internet. My mistake.

No hard feelings. Yes, misinterpretations happen a lot in written conversation.

For your game. That is interesting. I never tried this mod. I'm particularly interested by the "better time-scaling". I'll go check it out.

FexFX has a different time-scaling for Marathon (which I play) than the stock game. What really makes the mod shine imho is the bigger map. Especially combined with a dll that lets us play with more than 18 civilizations. In my last game, I had 34 civs on an FX-Mammoth map and it was the best of *all* Civ games I had so far. And I play Civ since 1991. Having so many players on the map leads to several powerhouses in the game, and competitors will remain until the late game. If you like truly "epic" games, try such a game.

 

[Adam7Eight]

Psyringe, I'm interested in what you're getting for wait times in between turns in the modern era with that mod. Got an estimate?

 

[Bhruic]

Having so many players on the map leads to several powerhouses in the game, and competitors will remain until the late game. If you like truly "epic" games, try such a game.

Yeah, I can't play with the default number of Civs anymore, I find it leads to boring games. I like having more conflicts going on, more challenge to expand, more powerhouse Civs popping up. I know it's not for everyone, but I hope more people give it a shot, I think they'd have a similar reaction.

Bh

 

[UnspokenRequest]

Psyringe, I'm interested in what you're getting for wait times in between turns in the modern era with that mod. Got an estimate?

That was my question too. I've got a decent computer. I can play on huge maps with plenty of civ and the delay won't get that bad, but still I'm rather impatient with delays.