Where's Israel?
- Thread starter Lord Britannia
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Tarkhan
King
Probably to avoid controversy =/
Though it would be historically accurate if the entire world was fighting to control it.
Though it would be historically accurate if the entire world was fighting to control it.
Senethro
Overlord
Does a tiny regional power with a debatable claim to an ancient legacy of being dominated by its neighbours really deserve to be in the game ahead of Spain/Poland/Mongols/Incans or hell, even a 3rd rate European country like Scotland.
The Jewish people are culturally significant but this is a game about empires.
The Jewish people are culturally significant but this is a game about empires.
It is not true. Archeology disproved such claims.
mintyfreshdeath
Warlord
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- Dec 25, 2003
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Keep in mind that you are expressing this opinion on the internet.
Senethro
Overlord
America deserves to be in Civ due to being a vast overachiever despite being a relatively young nation. Atomic bombs, moon landings, convinced the world that they deserve to consume a quarter of energy output, etc
Basically, to get Israel in is going to require the Second Coming of Christ and him choosing Jerusalem as the capital of his thousand year reign. Thats how high the bar is set on small, young countries.
Basically, to get Israel in is going to require the Second Coming of Christ and him choosing Jerusalem as the capital of his thousand year reign. Thats how high the bar is set on small, young countries.
That's a great idea. After all, crusaders and religious wars have been included before, so I can't see why it should be a big deal.
Nope, they don't deserve to be in Civ, its just a sad coincidence that they are.
member66170
King
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What criteria do you use to judge if a civ should be in a game or not?
mintyfreshdeath
Warlord
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Yeah, but in all seriousness, America did go to the moon and they were the first nation to drop the bomb and you probably consume your fair share of American pop culture. Hey, you might not though and if that is the case then good for you for not following the crowd.
I'm sure there is a legitimate argument against the inclusion of the USA out there somewhere but I haven't seen it yet!
The civ's in Civ should be those of the oldest and greatest culture, The US isn't one of them. It is the most advance Civ in existence today, but its a young Civ, if other Civ's still existed today then they would be more advanced and more powerful than the poor excuse of a "world power" that we have today, and the atom bomb is an achievement of many cultures, not just the US. As for "going to the moon" that is certainly man's most advanced achievement in history, but what if Rome existed today as the empire it was in its height, would they be capable of more, just because the US and the rest of the worlds Civ's today are lucky enough to exist with such Technology, doesn't make us the greatest of all Civ's through history.
hardkjerne
Chieftain
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Empires die because they can't adapt. What makes you think that empires that died long time ago because they could not keep up, would be technologically superior today?
Should America be included? Absolutely, 100%, and I'm not American.
They currently have the most influential culture, the most powerful military, and up until very recently (and debatable still) had the most powerful economy. They've also made some of the greatest scientific discoveries ever.
In civ terms, they've been doing pretty well and would be in the lead to win the game by the time we reach 2050.
Civ obviously gives more importance to the more recent eras considering the ways it concentrates turns, eras, techs, etc in the last few hundred years.
I fail to see any reason why America would not be included.
They currently have the most influential culture, the most powerful military, and up until very recently (and debatable still) had the most powerful economy. They've also made some of the greatest scientific discoveries ever.
In civ terms, they've been doing pretty well and would be in the lead to win the game by the time we reach 2050.
Civ obviously gives more importance to the more recent eras considering the ways it concentrates turns, eras, techs, etc in the last few hundred years.
I fail to see any reason why America would not be included.
marioflag
History Addict
Quite frankly i just don't get your argument.
America like Romans, Greece, China, Japan, Russia, Germany, France, England Arabs are the most influential civilizations and in my opinion should never be cut out.
About USA they are the most influential civ in the last 70 years economically, militarily and culturally. Considering only culture i would even say that there is no previous civilization which has got so much cultural influence globally thanks to globalization.
This is only considering America at its zenith.
If you ask me if they should always pick the most important civilizations America is not certainly in danger, considering that Iroquois, Songhai, Mali, are certainly poorer choices.
member66170
King
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So we should only have Egypt, Babylon, China, India and Crete in the game?
And even then, you could go further back in time and show that many of these originated from 1 older meta culture.
Why does having a great culture 6000 years ago rank higher than having a great culture 3000 years ago?
Sahkuhnder
Delusions of grandeur
Bold by me.
...poor excuse of a "world power"
America is the world's only superpower. If Civ was a real life game America would be winning today by a large margin. Exactly how are you measuring "world power"? Let's check:
American military? Superpower. No nation even begins to the rival the size or technological advancement of the US military.
American economy? Superpower. A rich nation with the largest economy in the world.
American culture? Superpower. I have traveled extensively and everywhere I've been the locals are always very aware of American culture. They know American music and music groups and individual musicians, have watched American movies and recognize American movie stars, have knowledge of American sports teams and athletes, wear American brand name items and consume American products. Who in the world doesn't recognize the names George Washington or Abraham Lincoln or the more modern George Bush or Barack Obama? In the history of humanity no culture has ever spread globally as widely or as deeply as American culture is.
Diplomatically? Superpower. This is America's weakest area but there is still no other single nation with more diplomatic power available than America. America's allies and friends are themselves the world's great powers.
Space race? Superpower. Count the American satellites in orbit. Count the American probes speeding throughout the solar system (and beyond). Apollo, Space Shuttle, the American contribution to the ISS. The American flag in space is the rule, not the exception.
You claimed "Nope, they don't deserve to be in Civ". So you can't even see that American belongs in the top 18 of the world's great civilizations.
What reason is there that American would not be on the list of the world's great civs? Age? Yes, America is only over 200 years old. But that is an even greater reason why America should be counted as a great civilization. In just over 200 years America has gone from small colonies freshly carved from the wilderness and successfully grown into the powerhouse it is today. That America is still relatively young only illustrates just how successful a civ it is.
You downplay the Atom Bomb or the manned trips to the moon so what would you suggest as a substitute? Olympic medals? Standard of living? Inventions? The fact that the American Dream attracts people from all over the world who want to live in America and be a part of American success? America doesn't lead in every conceivable category but no other single nation can challenge the overall American dominance.
But I suspect nobody will sway you from your deep hatred of America, so go ahead and use your American invented and designed computer to boldly tell us how America doesn't belong in the American game series called Civilization.
Nice rant. I mostly agree except for the economy...it's been a little wobbly as of late, and the debt is starting to pile up...
Also American culture is incredibly influential it's true. I predict that someone will argue "who's to say their culture is better". It's not by any means, but to deny the profound impact it's had on countries all over the world today is to deny the truth.
Also American culture is incredibly influential it's true. I predict that someone will argue "who's to say their culture is better". It's not by any means, but to deny the profound impact it's had on countries all over the world today is to deny the truth.
Infiltrator
Warlord
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While I would argue several of the points Sahkuhnder made, America does beyond any doubt deserve to be among the civs..
Also, this thread = derailed.
Also, this thread = derailed.
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