which civs would you add?

[Portuguese]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
The Portuguese were actually ahead of the Spanish in most things. They ejected the moors much earlier or never let them in (I forget which), they invented the techniques which Colombus used to reach the new world, they rounded African coast first. They are only similar to an American viewpoint - most Americans think Brazilians speak Spanish...

We ejected much earlier Portugal-1249 Vs 1492-Spain

Colombus offered himself to work for us. We refused it: he was a maniac trying what we knew it was impossible. We had much better than a Italian crazy man with no preparation for the trip!
Of course he used our techniques: we learned some things from moors and perfect them so we could discover African Coast after Bojador. It would be foolish to don't use them!!!

Yes, we rounded Africa in 1498, after years of methodic studying of countless expeditions towards that objective. Poor John II died in 1495 and never saw what he mada possible...

Brazilians speak Portuguese of course...
Spanish colonies split and today Brazil rules Latin America.

 

[Ozymandius]

Sorry about that Portugal/Spain thing

I meant to say that somewhere after the Roman Empire declined the Iberian Peninsula had a similar origin with royal houses intermarrying. I was led to believe that at one time they were one kingdom under one crown and split..... The Spanish continuing their language with a lisp and the Portugese with a more harsh sound.... sorry it's all greek to me, I have a lead ear. Their history then continued in rivalry ..... and football games.
Both like bull fighting except the Spanish still kill theirs.

The one thing I know for sure is that I like your coffee and croisants

 

[Portuguese]

Originally posted by Baron Scot

is it just me or do americans get trashed by basically everyone else? we get sterotyped as ignorant, aragant, uneducated, and on and on. i just think that sucksbut then again, i look out my window and see children throwing car wheels at each other. not to mention in boston burgurly bank robbing and murder are on the rise.

i understand every culture produces morons, but it is seems when an american make a stupid comment they get anti usa spam thrown at them

Unfournatelly, I must agree with you. I thought a lot why and it is difficult to get a answer...

The idea that Americans give from them selves, true or not, is that americans are very arogant and they think that the world is theirs and all the other countries have to obey their orders OR...

Ignorant... I don't know! As I have said, I want to believe that it is not true that americans are ignorants, for the good of a world currently rulled by them!!!
I would like to remember Arnold Schwarzeneger here. He once said something like: As an European, I have a much better idea of global history and complexity.
I also have been told that most US senators wouldn't be able to say more than 10 foreign countries!!! (I know 170+...)
I think that Americans don't pay atention to the rest of the world and so they (you...) aren't able to understand it so well as a person created in a region with so much history and culture fights and interacions, such as Europe, Southeast Asia,... and so on. Therefore, Americans lack of knowledge leads them to say mistakes that, due to being obvious to an european, are imediatly classified as... from an american...

We have 2 major advantages:
- We know all about you from Media (Internet, TV, Radio, Cinema,...), but you never heard knews from most of foreign countries (admiting you don't interest just about your state or country...). How many foreign films had you saw lately?
- For example, a Portuguese must know much history to understand what is happening nowadays in Portugal, and this way, we learned much about Spain, France, Germany,... .So, it is a need to have plenty of knowledge even to understand a single TV program or a book. You don't

Let's see another example from civilizations cultures: Music!

- Spain: Bolero
- Portugal: Vira
- Austria:Valse
- USA: rap, heavy rock, pop rock (with UK)

See what I mean, US (UK today too) are normally more consumable and lower cultural

Politics, Cinema, TV and others cultural expressions would also be possibilities to ilustrate what I'm saying...

I don't want to blame anyone: it's no one fault.
But the true is that Americans don't seem very wise from this side of the Atlantic...

I would like to know what you or other americans think of this...

I don't want here to criticize or let down whoever is an american, I would just like to know what do you think of this, and if you think if I'm right ot wrong...

Hope to have helped...

 

[Portuguese]

Originally posted by Ozymandius
Sorry about that Portugal/Spain thing

I meant to say that somewhere after the Roman Empire declined the Iberian Peninsula had a similar origin with royal houses intermarrying. I was led to believe that at one time they were one kingdom under one crown and split..... The Spanish continuing their language with a lisp and the Portugese with a more harsh sound.... sorry it's all greek to me, I have a lead ear. Their history then continued in rivalry ..... and football games.
Both like bull fighting except the Spanish still kill theirs.

The one thing I know for sure is that I like your coffee and croisants

Ok...

Just more one thing about that Roman till 1139 period:

- Roman rulled till ~490
- Sueves(is it like this in English?) conquered north of Portugal and Visigoths the rest of the Iberian Peninsula.
- Eventually Visigoths conquered all the Peninsula
- King Ricardo ) ) became Christian (6th Century...)
- in 711 Moors arrived
- in 715 Moors only hadn't conquered Asturias, a bunch of mountains in northern today's Spain...
- in the 9th century we started the reconquering of the Peninsula, making use of moors divisions (they were a huge empire at the time...)
- in 11th century, several "clans" started to be formed, united by religion...
- in the 12th century, many countries appeared, all united to see who conquered more territory for christanity (crusades period...)
- Only Portugal survived till nowadays. The rest were united through the centuries, till the appearance of Spain in 1492. Spain was formed then, so Portugal has never been controled by Spain till then (duhh).

Spain speaks many languages... In Galicia, they speak almost Portuguese, and they don't study it because Madrid don't let it!!!
But only the Basco country (I don't know the official translation...) doesn't speak a latin language (they of course speak spanish officially...)

Just to make things clear

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Reply to Portuguese:

Yes, the thing is that America has a big population. A portion of it is fairly well educated (the blue states in the last election map) and I am sure you meet Americans who come to Europe, speak European languages, know something about futbol, etc.

The rest of America is less educated and of course geographically insular. We don't bother much with the World Cup, instead we are interested in the sports between our colleges or our cities (American football, baseball, basketball). Alot of people never learn geography or much world history because frankly they don't plan to use such knowledge.

What I noticed touring Europe is another ghastly phenomenon: some of our less educated, less mannered Americans are still very wealthy and decide to travel to Europe, where they actually act like the rude, arrogant uneducated soda guzzling slobs that Europeans decry.

I would put it to you that this is probably how the Roman legions acted when they toured Europe outside their home. "Our way", our luxury, our language etc. seems superior to alot of us. We don't have to live in the midst of so many nations and languages which encourages education and sharing.

Of course, when we all meet up, the stereotypes don't usually hold. The French are not snobby, the Germans are not cold, etc. I, like many Americans, understand the advantage of closer contact between us and Europe, us and the rest of the world. Now if only I could elect some leaders who felt the same way...

 

[bnmac3]

the 8 civs

1:Mongols
2:spain:
3:Ottoman Empire
4:vikings
5:Incas
6:Brazil
7:arabia
8ortugal

 

[nalves]

The Portuguese of course .... They had the great empiry of history and held him for a long time.
The special unit could be the cruzader, or a early portuguese ship called barca, this was the first portuguese ship.

 

[Doc Mahem]

Ideas for a few UU's

Hebrews: Macabee (s/p?) same stats as the immortal, 4.2.1 swordsman

Vikings: Longship. 1.1.4 galley

Portuguese: no idea for a name, but a caravel that doesn't sink in the ocean. same stats otherwise.

Mongols: Horde. 6.2.2 knight

not that it matters. . .

 

[nalves]

Like I said before the ship for the portuguese civilazation could be the Barca

 

[Baron Scot]

Originally posted by Doc Mahem
Ideas for a few UU's

Hebrews: Macabee (s/p?) same stats as the immortal, 4.2.1 swordsman

try being more origional. in the completed mod forum, look in 'racial war mod' you will clearly see this is a rip off of an idea i had a month ago.

i am just so frustrated with the anti-usa stuff. i am at a loss to even defend myself. i dont understand how the idiots of our society became the spokespersons for my country.

it just seems like the good just gets ignored as dumb luck or something. how much foreign aid goes to european countries? i would love to know.

 

[Ozymandius]

By foreign aid do you mean Big Macs and Coca Colas?

 

[Doc Mahem]

Originally posted by Baron Scot


try being more origional. in the completed mod forum, look in 'racial war mod' you will clearly see this is a rip off of an idea i had a month ago.

lol. sure thing. next time I'm sorting through some bigoted mod thread and all the mudslinging it entails, I'll be sure to take notes on whatever technical details someone mentions.

 

[bobgote]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
What I noticed touring Europe is another ghastly phenomenon: some of our less educated, less mannered Americans are still very wealthy and decide to travel to Europe, where they actually act like the rude, arrogant uneducated soda guzzling slobs that Europeans decry.

not just europe. we get our share of stupid americans. don't get me wrong, I know from this thread that at least some americans are educated, polite, etc etc, but my personal experience has shown me the worst of your country.

The French are not snobby

really??
I have to say that behind many stereotypes, there is cold, hard fact. There is always a reason to the stereotype. And as to the behaviour of frenchman, ask the english...

 

[Ozymandius]

I think that the tribal instinct forces every culture to have its jingoistic, arrogant and self inflated ego types. I have travelled through every US state and find that there are nice people everywhere. I have also met my share of bigots & ultra flag wavers. The only truly nice people in the world are found in Canada.

For example, when we host an Olympics, we don't even try and score a gold. We let all the invited guests get the glory and we foot the bills.
Australia in their arrogance, host an olympics, and then try and get every medal for themselves. I don't think its very sporting to invite people and then show them you're better.


In truth there are stereotypes that must have a basis in fact:
The US has a World Series and until the Toronto Blue Jays won in the 90's no other country can participate. The World has a World Cup and only the Americans aren't interested even if they did well.
The Germans are known for their sense of humour and drinking vodka, The Italians are known for their organization, and smooth running government, The English are known for their flair in designing cars and wearing white socks with their sandles, the French like beer..... did I get something right here???

 

[Pangur Bán]

Top ten:

1. Spanish
2. Scandinavians
3. Scottish
4. Carthaginians/Phoenicians
5. Celts
6. Arabs
7. Inca
8. Israel
9. Slavs
10. (Aboriginal) Australia


For all the trouble it takes and for the price of the game fireaxis should really have given us more civs. It's shocking that only 8 civs will be added in the $30 XP!

 

[bobgote]

Originally posted by Ozymandius

For example, when we host an Olympics, we don't even try and score a gold. We let all the invited guests get the glory and we foot the bills.
Australia in their arrogance, host an olympics, and then try and get every medal for themselves. I don't think its very sporting to invite people and then show them you're better.

Now be fair. We just won a few to get the thing started. We wouldn't want our guests to be made to feel awkward now would we? It's a poor host that makes their guest feel unwelcome. We let them go for the rest after that didn't we?

And yeah...what's with a baseball "World Series". Who plays baseball anyway? (BTW I'm assuming your talking about baseball)

And to Calgacus: Why Aboriginal Australia? They were never really a civilization were they? (In the way that all the included civs are) They have art and culture, but aboriginal australia has never done anything dramatic on the world stage. If you made an australian civ (Which i don't suggest), make it as it currently is, a multicultural civ (That'd be interesting). You could have some aboriginal stuff in it, but that's only a small part of australia.

And I would imagine a civ takes a while to make, and is not that easy. Take into account the number of staff (35 i think) at firaxis, and the fact they have other stuff to do (I would imagine). The leaderhead animation in itself would take quite a while to do. You can always make them yourself, or get them from the mods section.

 

[bobgote]

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3infocenter.shtml#ptw

here is the link to civfanatics' info on the expack, for those who are interested.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by bobgote

And to Calgacus: Why Aboriginal Australia? They were never really a civilization were they? (In the way that all the included civs are) They have art and culture, but aboriginal australia has never done anything dramatic on the world stage. If you made an australian civ (Which i don't suggest), make it as it currently is, a multicultural civ (That'd be interesting). You could have some aboriginal stuff in it, but that's only a small part of australia.

And I would imagine a civ takes a while to make, and is not that easy. Take into account the number of staff (35 i think) at firaxis, and the fact they have other stuff to do (I would imagine). The leaderhead animation in itself would take quite a while to do. You can always make them yourself, or get them from the mods section.

I'd like to see the Aborigines becuase of their (1)distinctiveness, (2)because Australia needs a civ for the world map and because(3) white Australia is just another European civ with less history. If white Australia became a civ their would be no reason not to let Canada, New Zealand, Brazil, Argentina, etc in as civs.

 

[bobgote]

we're actually a very unique civ, and we've made quite a history for ourselves. I wouldn't choose the aborigines because you could find similar nations that have ended up doing a lot more.

either have australia in it's current state or not at all.

 

[Portuguese]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
Reply to Portuguese:

I would put it to you that this is probably how the Roman legions acted when they toured Europe outside their home. "Our way", our luxury, our language etc. seems superior to alot of us. We don't have to live in the midst of so many nations and languages which encourages education and sharing.

Of course, when we all meet up, the stereotypes don't usually hold. The French are not snobby, the Germans are not cold, etc. I, like many Americans, understand the advantage of closer contact between us and Europe, us and the rest of the world. Now if only I could elect some leaders who felt the same way...

Intereting way of view...
Self-criticism is not an easy thing to do you know... for me also!!
So, I onlyhave to keep stereotypes closed in side me and treat everyone equally: exceptions do exist, and in this cases they usually are more than the rulles...

The americans I personally met and the ones I see on TV doesn't seem very... aware of the non-American world so to speak.
Maybe they don't know it because it is useless, but I recommend American Express Guides to those who intended to visite Europe. I have seen them, and I think they are cool, with lot of info: basic history and culture, usefull info,...

My opinion about European stereotypes :
- Portuguese: sad, conformist and continously "homesick"
- Spanish: too much proud, latin man and woman fits...
- French: revolutionary, not conformists
- German: workaholics; parties=beer
- English: changing from snobs to hiper-sensitive; worst cookers!!!
- Italian: light, relax way of life; not strict when acting
- Northerns: superiority complex (I'm southern, i know it...)
- Eslaves (Varsovia Pact...): opposite to Italians
- Greeks: city-state thought; united, but not state-lovers...
- Dutch: total freedom (canabbis-coffees just for example...)

Feel free to comment...

Sorry if you don't agree with any. Disagree at will...