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Which Evil Leader is most Likely to become Good?

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Duruk, Jan 19, 2009.

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Which Evil Leader is most likely to become Good?

  1. Perpentach

    16 vote(s)
    11.2%
  2. Keelyn

    16 vote(s)
    11.2%
  3. Flauros

    3 vote(s)
    2.1%
  4. Alexis

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Jonas Endain

    9 vote(s)
    6.3%
  6. Sheelba

    22 vote(s)
    15.4%
  7. Charadon

    1 vote(s)
    0.7%
  8. Mahala

    24 vote(s)
    16.8%
  9. Auric Ulvin

    2 vote(s)
    1.4%
  10. Hyborem

    6 vote(s)
    4.2%
  11. Tebryn Arbandi

    1 vote(s)
    0.7%
  12. Os-Gabella

    3 vote(s)
    2.1%
  13. Faeryl Viconia

    9 vote(s)
    6.3%
  14. Decius

    31 vote(s)
    21.7%
  1. megamanx06

    megamanx06 Caswallan

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    In almost all of my games that Sheelba's in, she converts to Order.
     
  2. thewyrm

    thewyrm Ambassador to Real Life

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    Feb 9, 2008
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    My heart says Keelyn, but I voted for Mahala.

    In "my" version of the FfH story Keelyn is captured by the Elohim and Ethne is able to be a calming influence on her mind and maturity. Keelyn and the demons loyal to her are what turns the tide against Hyborem.
     
  3. Iceciro

    Iceciro Special Ability: Decimate

    Joined:
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    Location:
    in ur empire, takin ur cities
    Flauros built the PILLAR. OF. CHAINS. He's evil. Just because he's less "destroy the world for power" and more "shut up, I'm hungry" Doesn't make him less evil.

    Mahala for me.
     
  4. Morni

    Morni Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    Messages:
    145
    I voted Hyborem. Because I can.
     
  5. Dumanios

    Dumanios MLG

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    I voted Jonas because he he porbably could become good if Bhall went back to the light,or from talk of friends
     
  6. thomas.berubeg

    thomas.berubeg Wandering the World

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    He's an Orc warlord. Does he have friends? :sad:
     
  7. zup

    zup Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,238
    Flauros does not need redemption. He's a great guy. Yes he kills people. So do the Bannor in the name of Junil. Even the Elohim wanted to start bashing in heads after what was done to Einion's wife. He's no different from the rest.

    And furhtermore... Killing people is not evil. Pursuing one's self interest and pleasure is not evil. There is no such thing as evil. There is no good either. But don't bother debating that with me.

    As such me voting would be rather pointless.
     
  8. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Location:
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    Of course, the Bannor don't often rape and devour souls in the name of Junil.
     
  9. KillerClowns

    KillerClowns Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,139
    No offense, but your finger is getting awfully to my berserk button. For all my villain-like cackling, love of playing the bad guy, and dark sense of humor, I've got a (decidedly [wiki]Vimes[/wiki]-like) Lawful Good streak a mile wide. But I'll not argue the point... I can find I can be a bit too zealous for some people's comfort. Besides...
    :agree:

    EDIT: *downs a metaphorical swig of tequila*
    Found the quote from Discworld that summarizes my beliefs pretty well, might as well post it. Thank you, Wikiquote Or perhaps not; I may regret this...
    (A discussion between DEATH and his granddaughter (long story), underlining mine."
     
  10. Tyrs

    Tyrs Chieftain

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    Northern Virgina
    I'm not the best at arguments, and you did ask not too, so I'll just settle for a "I agree with the above post"
     
  11. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

    Joined:
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    zup's response seems kind of like the old lawyer joke that went something like "Nothing happened, I didn't do it, and you can't prove I did it." (In otherwords, making contradictory claims at once in an attempt to dissuade all the opposing responses, even though the aggregate effect is to make his own position seem silly)
     
  12. Grey Fox

    Grey Fox Master of Points

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    Male
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    Sweden
    zup almost always posts silly comments. At least all the times when he doesn't post serious ones.
     
  13. Duruk

    Duruk Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    53
    A few points;
    1) In response to zup, I'm starting to fall in with the idea that good is defined by acting to help a bunch of people, neutral is acting to help yourself, your friends and your family, and evil is acting to help only yourself. So I wouldn't say that killing is always, but I would say that what Flauros does definitely is (yes, I'm ignoring your wish to not be debated with)

    2)Have no idea why people think Perp would become good, or justify his actions as being less awful due to his insanity. I'll admit his awesome, though.

    3)Want to hear reasoning from someone who actually believes that Hyborem is the most likely to be redeemed

    4)I think its pretty interesting that this poll did a lot better than "which good leader is most likely to become evil," although I'll admit that Decius was more of a spoiler there than here.
     
  14. Tyrs

    Tyrs Chieftain

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    Location:
    Northern Virgina
    In response to #4 I think the game itself gives us plenty of leaders falling, the forum are the only time we get to see leaders rising
     
  15. Cavalier

    Cavalier Chieftain

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    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
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    As is your comment. Everything is relative. And? The fun here comes from establishing generally agreed upon set of definitions (eg, "Eating souls is bad") and exploring the ambiguities therein.
     
  16. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

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    Orange County, CA
    There's Kylorin, who went from neutral to evil to good, but that's in the prelude.
     
  17. Tyrs

    Tyrs Chieftain

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    Location:
    Northern Virgina
    Very true, and Kylorin is one of the most interesting characters/stories in the game. I might just be talking about myself here, but in general I feel like redemption simply makes for a more satisfying story/ending. I love dark fantasy, but without some kind of upswing it just feels like...life. With magic. FfH does a great job of the necessary balance of having a dark enough world to be interesting, without making anyone who plays it suicidal (not including OO)
     
  18. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I personally think it is more interesting if taking the path of evil eventually turns out to have been for the greater good. If I had written the Decius saga he probably would have fallen eventually if you took the Malakim route, and repented eventually if you joined the Calabim. He would have to loose everything he had gained from his wickedness and probably loose his life as well, but the power he accumulated would enable him to succeed in saving Erebus where he would have otherwise failed.
     
  19. JonathanStrange

    JonathanStrange PrinceWithA1000Enemies

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    TThe Dreaming
    Although I think Decius is "the most likely," I don't mean that I see it as a strong possibility. It's like the saying "The chances of that are slim and none - and slim's leaving town."

    FFH2 seems more inclined to having "Good" leaders go bad than the reverse.

    Personally I'd love Faeryl Viconia to proclaim her hatred of clothes and rejoin her Ljosalfarian brethren.
     
  20. Thunder_Gr

    Thunder_Gr Chieftain

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    Dec 8, 2008
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    Location:
    Universe
    Well, I think "Good" and "Bad" are, were and will ever be relative terms. Most people seem to believe in the existance of a "Universal Good" and "Universal Bad" which, according to my observations, is not the real case.

    So, Good in relation to what? Evil, in relation to what? Is not true that "there is no Good without Evil" and vice versa? Perhaps, through actions considered Evil by a specific society standards, a Leader can, in the end, save the world from destruction( and this, by itself could be considered as a Good or Evil action. Did he really "saved" the world or just prolonged its suffering? Again, no real answer to it).
    On the other hand, a Leader, performing naturally "good" actions(like, allying with the infernals to save the lives of thousands of people), can, effectivelly, aid or even cause, the destruction of the whole world(Again, would that be an "evil" action? Or just a ending to the suffering? Or, perhaps, the souls lost that way could finaly find a salvation not available for as long as the world has existed? Who can really say what is "good" or "bad"?).

    This is really a feeling that FFH is trying, and succeeds in keeping it, and it is obvious in Tolkien's Silmarilion/LotR(Remember Faramir over the body of the dead eastern fellow? Or Gandalf speaking about Gollum with Frodo in Morea? -just two examples of the countless) as well as in every significant fantasy story I have ever read.
     

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