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Which Evil Leader is most Likely to become Good?

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Duruk, Jan 19, 2009.

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Which Evil Leader is most likely to become Good?

  1. Perpentach

    16 vote(s)
    11.2%
  2. Keelyn

    16 vote(s)
    11.2%
  3. Flauros

    3 vote(s)
    2.1%
  4. Alexis

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Jonas Endain

    9 vote(s)
    6.3%
  6. Sheelba

    22 vote(s)
    15.4%
  7. Charadon

    1 vote(s)
    0.7%
  8. Mahala

    24 vote(s)
    16.8%
  9. Auric Ulvin

    2 vote(s)
    1.4%
  10. Hyborem

    6 vote(s)
    4.2%
  11. Tebryn Arbandi

    1 vote(s)
    0.7%
  12. Os-Gabella

    3 vote(s)
    2.1%
  13. Faeryl Viconia

    9 vote(s)
    6.3%
  14. Decius

    31 vote(s)
    21.7%
  1. petcarcharodon

    petcarcharodon Sheaim Archmage

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    I know I would certainly kill them. And some people who don't know her as well. And that Balseraph ambassador who keeps who keeps telling me riddles. He's irritating.

    I was going to vote for Hyborem to be funny, but then I picked Mahala for reasons others have stated.

    EDIT: Who voted for Tebryn?
     
  2. Skitters

    Skitters Chieftain

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    I'd think Faeryl would be pretty convinced in her own ability and to some extent relish the challenge of actually manipulating her potential opponents to do her will. She is presumably(?) Esus's greatest disciple on Erebus

    True, if she failed to manipulate someone to do her will, she would have other means to quieten them....but I'd almost expect examples of this to be few and far between and only as a last resort because it'd almost be a psychological blow to her to feel she could be outwitted by anyone
     
  3. wilboman

    wilboman Hibernorse Frost Giant

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    Tebryn is not really a bad guess. After all, he was good (or, at least, normal) to begin with. If someone offered him a quicker, easier way out of his current predicament he would probably grab it with both hands, regardless of which god (Good, Neutral or Evil) offered it to him.
     
  4. Grey Fox

    Grey Fox Master of Points

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    My bet is on Jonas. By the help of Rantine and possibly Brigit. For some reason I see Sheelba becoming more twisted unless Bhaal can be turned.
     
  5. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    I would say Mahala since she is not really evil of the Clan leaders with Brigit or a good again Bhall, but i saw in one of my games something which might change my mind. In an Erebus covered with Hell ,I lead a desperate fight as the Elohim against a Sheaim/Hyborem coalition with two or three vassals when Perpentach who has stayed neutral during all the game started to attack the sheaims with cow catapults and Freaks and all the Carnival ^^

    Since that time I tend to think that at the final battle, should it happen, he will have enough mind to try to prevent Erebus from being anihilated. I don't know if it really means he would become good but it seems at least better than the sheaims
     
  6. Corlis

    Corlis Chieftain

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    Haha, I was the one who voted for Tebryn. I figured that he'd jump ship pretty quickly if he thought he could escape from his pact with Ceridwen.
     
  7. Lade

    Lade Chieftain

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    I would say either Mahala or Keelyn (I voted for Mahala)

    Mahala make be cold and slightly cruel, but only when necassary. She didn't ally with the Illians because she just felt like it, she did it because she felt it was the only way they could survive.

    Keelyn is almost a normal child, but she was raised by summoned demons and advisors who would probably give her anything she wanted. Shes not neccesarily the completely evil type, but she's so spoiled and used to getting her way that it would be difficult (but not impossible) to convert her
     
  8. Humakty

    Humakty Happy Goblin

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    I voted for Sheelba, as if she can recover from the humilation her adoptive father layed upon her, which as probably given her great hatred of order buddies, she will go back to the 'civilised' state of mind she was raised in, and so to a relative goodness. (good people in erebus sometimes look as facists, but everything is relative...)
     
  9. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    I thought the evil leaders of this game are generally evil to the core and far beyond redemption, as befits the FFH universe. The leaders that got the most votes are even more weird. If I really have to choose then Decius is the only possible choice. The Malakim and their Empyrean religion is about redemption, and I can see them allowing a vampire to join their side. Besides, he's supposedly the best general on Erebus, so I can see why they would make up a lot of excuses to have him around.
     
  10. Blackmantle

    Blackmantle Chieftain

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    Then you might have gotten a wrong impression.

    The lore is full of themes of fall and! redemption.
    Not just falling. (Altar of the Luonnotar, The Elhoim, Decius chosing to go to the Malakim for refugee, the empyrean. The tale of Saverous, Brigit, the positive outcome of the radiant guard just to name a few of the themes that actually are more about redemption.)

    Look up Sheelba's and Rantine's entry in the pedia for clarification that evil is not necessarily evil to the core (at least in an ethical sense).

    Evil in FFH always means that one actively or passivly helps the cause of the gods who oppose the one (so are in Agares league of Gods wanting to destroy creation or mostly. Mulcarn excluded to a certain extent....). Thats the very definition of it in terms of FFH2. Good is opposing the evil gods. Neutral is taking no active part in the conflict.
    Sure for most evil leaders it seems more clearly cut (far from all of them though and few are completely beyond resonable chances to go down a different path. Hell (;)), even the Calabim might turn to the Order when the World turns to hell and they starve because their "lifestock" dies out. Still surely Calabim lands whould not be a nice place to be though... ;)).
    But among good and neutral ones its very much blurred by our standarts (with some of the "good" leaders in FFH actually being quite malicious.).
    The context of erebus of course is an utterly different one. Thus its inhabitants might judge Order Mercurians under Basium very much as a Savior for example.

    Doesn't mean it doesn't turn out evil in many circumstances of course (in the Lore at least). But redemption is not impossible.

    So yes its quite picturable that a Sheelba returning to the ways of Junil (Bigit might be involed here redeeming Bhaal or possibly taking her place) or a Mahla throwing her weight behind Kilmorph and allying with the dwarves for the good of her people actually directly or indirectly oposing Agares and his gang in the end.
     
  11. Giga-Gigan

    Giga-Gigan Chieftain

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    Yeah its considered to be a Dark fantasy, but I consider it to be a Crayola Dark-Grey fantasy...
     
  12. Blackmantle

    Blackmantle Chieftain

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    Depending on the game in question of course.

    "The overlords Lanun have just won a cultural victory " :run:
     
  13. KillerClowns

    KillerClowns Chieftain

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    Despite it calling itself dark fantasy, I usually describe FfH as low fantasy in a cynical world, with the occasional dose of high fantasy for flavor. It's not as consistently unpleasant as, say, Warhammer (and certainly not as bad as 40k). I find my games, on average, tend to create worlds that are even moderately preferable to A Song of Fire and Ice; FfH is about as dirty, and magic is both more present and more likely to eat you, but the shades of gray are not quite as complicated, and there are genuinely good empires out there.
     
  14. Giga-Gigan

    Giga-Gigan Chieftain

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    You, know its kinda fun to think about cultural victories in FFH... If the Balserphs won a cultural victory, does that mean the world has given into madness? And does that mean that since madness is now the majority, logic is determined by the the mad? So does that mean whoever are left sane are now the insane? So in the end did Madness really win?! :crazyeye:
     
  15. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

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    Dark Fantasy is a genre title for fiction that exists between fantasy and horror. The fantasy roots are obvious, but to differentiate from the wide variety of other fantasy out there we really tried to invite a lot of poe, lovecraft and other horror writers to influence the mod.

    The direct contributions are obvious, but those are really homages. What we really hope is that their influence is felt beyond those. That the mechanics of the overlords would "feel" lovecraftian. That the pedia entries, art and effects would feel appropriate in a poe story (if the fantasy was stripped away).

    Dark Fantasy that is more on the fantasy side (which FfH is) typically contains bleak, pessimistic tones, and moral ambiguity. Its hard not to see a ton of that in FfH.
     
  16. Tayschrenn

    Tayschrenn Chieftain

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    I think sheelba, especially given her background
     
  17. Fenboy

    Fenboy Chieftain

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    Yeah, in FfH, Evil's victory is not inevitable, but when Good wins in FfH, its after a long, hard fight with lots of bloodshed and sacrifice on the way.

    Back on topic, I think that Sheelba and Brigit could have an interesting conversation. She's burned her bridges with the Bannor, but they're hardly the only Good Guys in FfH.
     
  18. Grey Fox

    Grey Fox Master of Points

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    Bannor are prolly the Good guys most likely to turn Evil.
     
  19. Ashdrake

    Ashdrake Chieftain

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    I think flauros will most likely turn good. He just doesnt really care about anyone else (at least from what i understood from the scenarios). As long as he has his little city (he only mentioned a city not an empire/kingdom/city-state royalty in the scenario) he is happy and content. So he can just turn good for the sake of it to go with the flow, or he may just end up somewhere in between, caring more about himself rather than the big picture.

    But as a wise person once said, good or evil does not exist, they're all shades of gray and depends on which side you look on.
     
  20. Tyrs

    Tyrs Chieftain

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    Flauros murders virginal young girls for entertainment... How could that go good? And being self-focused while the world burns is how most of the evil civs are evil
     

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