addiv
Hero of our time
Probably France. Sadly, their attitude seems to work.
Which is the most influential EU nation?
- Thread starter mazzz
- Start date
SanPellegrino
Wanderer
true, nobody beats France in bureaucracy, although Germany comes close
@Kamilian1, funny enough, the fear here is reversed.
Enkidu Warrior
Ultramagnetic
This is like the eurovision song contest all over again. Except that UK now has 1point! Go UK!
Ossric
Hedonistic Ruler
Belgium is one of the smaller players, the only surplus they can use is that they are one of the 6 founding nations.
I would put them in the following order:
1)germany
2)France
3)UK
4)Spain
5)Italy (as long as Berlusconi stays PM, you can put them lower)
6)Netherlands (15 mill citizens)
7)Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, Finland
11)Austria, Eire
13)Portugal, Greece (due to their weaker economy)
15)Luxemburg (small)
nr.7 through 14: i ranked them according to their economies since they have pretty much the same population sizes
I would put them in the following order:
1)germany
2)France
3)UK
4)Spain
5)Italy (as long as Berlusconi stays PM, you can put them lower)
6)Netherlands (15 mill citizens)
7)Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, Finland
11)Austria, Eire
13)Portugal, Greece (due to their weaker economy)
15)Luxemburg (small)
nr.7 through 14: i ranked them according to their economies since they have pretty much the same population sizes
With that, Germany will dominate. They will effectively be given the power to conquer without breaking the rules of democracyLittle countries will be screwed over by the bigger ones from now on.
I'm all for a new clause in the EU constitution... In order for their votes to be counted, East & West Germany must have seperate political units!
MCdread
Couldn't she get drowned?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
- Messages
- 5,348
No they don't. Portugal and Greece have moe than twice the population of Eire or Finland and more than Austria or the scandinavian countries. That means more voting power.
Also Portugal and Greece have interests in some of the more poblematic issues of the EU, which makes them vey visible. Finally they're part of the euro. I think Portugal and Greece are definitely more influential than Denmark for example.
Enkidu Warrior
Ultramagnetic
Zero was more than we deserved. It was so bad that it wasn't even funny anymore. Thinking about it makes my ears bleed.Originally posted by MCdread
Which if I'm not mistaken is an improvement on the results of last year.
The UK has highly significant influence once in a while, but comes second to Germafrance usually due to its half-assed attemp at EU membership. But who knows, maybe a successful referendum campaign could enable Blair to add serious engagement in the EU to his legacy. I can only hope.
yaroslav
Emperor
I doubt Spain is over Italy, who is richer and more populated than us.
SanPellegrino
Wanderer
why always the fear of germany? with 80 million we are of course the biggest player, but always seeked balance in the EU, (for historical reasons foremost, I admit.) there are smaller nations that cry much louder. Britain especially has nothing to fear, as it seems it will depart even more and probably completely in the next years.
EdwardTking
Deity
Quite, our dear "Mrs Thatcher" referred to the EU (technically then the EC) as "The Belgian Empire"
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
I think that in overall, the influence in the EU is biased by the fact we tend to consider the countries which traditionaly want to move forward as more influent than those who pull on the brakes.
The UK has an important place in Europe since its decisions lowered a lot the amitions of other members... and not always for the good reasons. If we decided there should not be any political influences (i.e. european elections) in the economical decision of the EU, it's also because of/thanks to Great Britain efforts to make the EMU as minimal as possible.
I would say that, of course, Germany and France are the most important countries, for now, because they are also the main founding fathers. The ECSC has been firstly thought by both France and Germany and the four others have rallied the project later...
However, I must add that this is not good. The EU needs to breath, and to breath, we need to give more voices to other members, especially the UK, but also ALL other members. What would be great would be that other countries than France and Germany propose new things to improve the EU. Tony Blair is ready to play the game and he doesn't have only bad ideas (to not say all his ideas are good).
Even if it's still true that De Gaulle didn't help at all in the 60's, it's still Britain which has decided that status of "half in" member, already at the beginning and even more later with Thatcher and Major.
This being said, all the 15 "old" members have proven at their level they had influence. For instance, without Greece, we wouldn't even have thought about such an awckward idea as inviting Cyprus in the EU. Sweden's vote against the Euro in September had a colossal impact on Denmark and Britain. Luxembourg has always been a voice more for a more powerful European Union. After all the first one who came with the idea of a single currency was a luxembourger prime minister named Pierre Werner. There's no country with no voice at all.
The UK has an important place in Europe since its decisions lowered a lot the amitions of other members... and not always for the good reasons. If we decided there should not be any political influences (i.e. european elections) in the economical decision of the EU, it's also because of/thanks to Great Britain efforts to make the EMU as minimal as possible.
I would say that, of course, Germany and France are the most important countries, for now, because they are also the main founding fathers. The ECSC has been firstly thought by both France and Germany and the four others have rallied the project later...
However, I must add that this is not good. The EU needs to breath, and to breath, we need to give more voices to other members, especially the UK, but also ALL other members. What would be great would be that other countries than France and Germany propose new things to improve the EU. Tony Blair is ready to play the game and he doesn't have only bad ideas (to not say all his ideas are good).
Even if it's still true that De Gaulle didn't help at all in the 60's, it's still Britain which has decided that status of "half in" member, already at the beginning and even more later with Thatcher and Major.
This being said, all the 15 "old" members have proven at their level they had influence. For instance, without Greece, we wouldn't even have thought about such an awckward idea as inviting Cyprus in the EU. Sweden's vote against the Euro in September had a colossal impact on Denmark and Britain. Luxembourg has always been a voice more for a more powerful European Union. After all the first one who came with the idea of a single currency was a luxembourger prime minister named Pierre Werner. There's no country with no voice at all.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
It's considered a virtue in Britain to be cynical ?
Desmond Hawkins
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2002
- Messages
- 9,922
Most influential in Europe: Germany/France
Most influential in the world: UK
Enkidu Warrior
Ultramagnetic
We've turned it in to an artform. We don't take it seriously, it's all in good humour.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
Be careful that could be taken as arrogance.
At least it's arrogance when the same kind of thing comes from France...
samildanach
Necrophile
Thatcher, I agree. But Major was rabidly pro-European and a German lover ( sorry I don't know the proper equivalent expression e.g. Anglophile - Brit lover - I suppose it doesn't get used much
)Germany refused to bail Britain out and precipitated Black Wednesday which resulted in the U.K. leaving the E.R.M. It simply wasn't the case that Major was half hearted about Europe.
Major believed he had an understanding with the Germans that they would step in if the U.K. got into trouble. The Germans later admitted that they did have an agreement with Major and that they did betray him - but said they had reason for doing so yet still to this day have refused to clarify what that reason was.
Germany is clearly the most powerful country in the E.U. and can shape its destiny by virtue of its shear economic muscle. We Brits like to refer to the Franco-German alliance but we know that it is germany that calls all the shots and that france is a very junior partner - a poodle if you will. Refering to it as Franco- Germany simply saves our egos from facing the horrible truth that Germany has out manouevered us and that it controls the future of continental Europe - not us
Enkidu Warrior
Ultramagnetic
We typically apply it to ourselves with equal if not greater vigour.Originally posted by Marla_Singer
Be careful that could be taken as arrogance.
At least it's arrogance when the same kind of thing comes from France...
