Which trait would you give Israel?

Jeremy Tusant

Jeremy Tusant

Chieftain
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
13
Location
Dallas, TX
I'm trying to edit/mod a Civ in CivIII to match the Civilization of Israel for myself to play with. David or Solomon as the leader, I've pulled the list of the 10 largest current cities in Israel and can use those for my first 10 cities, the rest will come from well known locations in Israel from the Maps in the Bible (Hebron, Shechem, Gilgal etc).

Which traits would you give Israel, which current civ, would I need to mod. I'm leaning towards Commercial and Religious (Indians/Spanish). If Spanish, I can change the leader to Queen Esther.

But I'm also considering other traits; Militaristic (King David), Industrious, or Scientific. Today Israel is known as a tech Giant for their region and their recent past has them with many Nobel Prize winners in Science, Technology, Business.

If it's possible, wondering what steps to take to use a different image (pic) of the Hittites or Sumerian leaders (top choices for pic of David/Solomon)

I'm taking suggestions.
 
Jeremy Tusant said:
I'm trying to edit/mod a Civ in CivIII to match the Civilization of Israel for myself to play with. David or Solomon as the leader, I've pulled the list of the 10 largest current cities in Israel and can use those for my first 10 cities, the rest will come from well known locations in Israel from the Maps in the Bible (Hebron, Shechem, Gilgal etc).

Which traits would you give Israel, which current civ, would I need to mod. I'm leaning towards Commercial and Religious (Indians/Spanish). If Spanish, I can change the leader to Queen Esther.

But I'm also considering other traits; Militaristic (King David), Industrious, or Scientific. Today Israel is known as a tech Giant for their region and their recent past has them with many Nobel Prize winners in Science, Technology, Business.

If it's possible, wondering what steps to take to use a different image (pic) of the Hittites or Sumerian leaders (top choices for pic of David/Solomon)

I'm taking suggestions.
Click to expand...

You can move around the traits as you want. Just take the civ slot you dont want in the game, so if you dont want Sumeria, overwrite Sumeria with the settings you want for Israel. In the bottom left of the Civilizations tab, there is the flc file path links and a drop down menu for each era. Those flcs take care of the animation in the player setup and the Diplomacy screen (which also contains the images of the leaderhead that are just animated). For the civilopedia and the end game screens, you need to get a pediaicons.txt for your mod and place it in your scenario mod folder (which is where your new flcs will also be). You then can either add an entry, or overwrite the Sumeria entry with the file paths to your pcx files (which are also placed in your mod folder as all custom files are). If you add an entry and leave the Sumerian entry there, you do have to change other links and it is probably easier to just use the Sumerian entry. If you have a mod with a lot of custom civs though, it is best to rewrite all those script entries. Once you see the pattern of how the file is, it should be fairly easy to understand, but there are tutorials located in the Creation and Customization section of this forum if you need more information. I assume you want to make a separate mod accessible from the Civ-Content menu. You could add it directly to the game if you wish, but it requires editing the actual files in the root, instead of having it separate (both default and new playable). It is generally recommended to make your own mod folder in the Scenarios folder and add your custom files to that. If you want Hall of Fame or just to hit New Game in the main menu, and for other reasons, then you would edit the conquests.biq in the root folder and add your custom files to the root folder.

For traits, I would think Militaristic would be a good trait since they do have a very good military and every person is in the reserve. But even Religious, Industrious, Commercial are all suitable traits as well. Depends on what you want and what playstyle you want Israel to have.

You can find a suitable leaderhead in the downloads section for leaderheads under civ3. There are some middle eastern ones and even one for David IIRC, though the quality of the leaderheads vary between each creator and you may want one with a higher quality.
 
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I would probably go with militaristic and religious or militaristic and agricultural. Efficient use of water in deserts is crucial and i recall that today Isreal is somewhat advanced in this area of expertise.
 
I suspect you're putting more thought into traits than the original game ever did. If you think for more than 10 minutes about the traits of any nation in the game you could probably apply virtually all the traits to them with equal sincerity. The only exclusions would be things like landlocked countries being seafaring. Even nations with tiny coastlines and no real naval heritage like Germany managed both a colonial empire and respectable naval dominance when it suited them. France is a predominantly agricultural nation with a far more renown global naval history than it is either commercial or industrial.

When they made the game I guess they were just trying to balance it so that each nation had something different and all the possible combinations were used up, which was then re-calibrated when the later versions added things like Seafaring. For all we know the initial selections could have been drawn from a hat.

In short, if you're doing it to play yourself, just give them your favourite traits.
 
A couple of thoughts for you. In TETurkhan's Test of Time scenario, which is on the Civ3 Complete Disc under the Play the World version, there is an Israel civilization already. He also posted an updated version of the mod that you can download from the download section, just look for TETurkhan. It is quite a comprehensive mod, but you might want to take out the Dinosaurs. I would have to get on another computer to check his trait settings, but I have been using Religious, Commercial, and Industrious. You could substitute Militaristic for Industrious, but I would definitely recommend Religious and Commercial.

For starting Techs, I have not experimented with giving the Monotheism, as that is actually in the Medieval Tech range, but you might want to think about that. As I have my version set up so that I can build Leaders as needed, I have a pretty long list of potential leaders as well. If you are doing this in Conquests, and I have converted Test of Time to run in Conquests, you can also set Wonders like the Heroic Epic and Sun Tzu's Art of War to auto-produce leaders.

It should be noted that I am a devoted fan of Test of Time, and use it a lot for inspiration in my modding ideas. I just am not that great at adding buildings and units.

Edit Note: TETurkhan uses the Commercial and Religious traits for Israel, and Hammurabi for the leader head, which I think works very well. He has Solomon for the Leader, but David would also be reasonable.

Note to Moderators: Maybe this should be moved to the Creation and Customization forum, since it is a discussion of modding the game.
 
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In the next version of CCM Israel has the traits militaristic and commercial (in that mod all civs additionally have the trait religious to shorten down the phases of Anarchy when changing governments). The leaders are: Era 1: David, Era 2: Solomon; Era 3: Herzl and Era 4: Sharon

Israel1.jpg


Here is a screenshot techtree Era 4 of Israel:

Israel2.jpg


In the present available version of that mod Israel only has two leaders (David and Sharon).
 
Ariel Sharon????? Please. It has to be Yitzhak Rabin, Ariel Sharon is an insult.
 
Buttercup said:
I suspect you're putting more thought into traits than the original game ever did. If you think for more than 10 minutes about the traits of any nation in the game you could probably apply virtually all the traits to them with equal sincerity. The only exclusions would be things like landlocked countries being seafaring. Even nations with tiny coastlines and no real naval heritage like Germany managed both a colonial empire and respectable naval dominance when it suited them. France is a predominantly agricultural nation with a far more renown global naval history than it is either commercial or industrial.

When they made the game I guess they were just trying to balance it so that each nation had something different and all the possible combinations were used up, which was then re-calibrated when the later versions added things like Seafaring. For all we know the initial selections could have been drawn from a hat.

In short, if you're doing it to play yourself, just give them your favourite traits.
Click to expand...

I would respectfully disagree, I'm continually surprised by the amount of thought and effort that has gone into a number of factors within the game. Sid Meier and his team are quite likely history buffs.
 
@Jeremy: I can see reasons for both: the "General Discussions" forum as well as the "Creation and Customization" forum. If you think this question here would better fit into the second category, just let me know and I can move it there for you.
(In fact, if you also need a bit of help with the technical side of making such a mod, you would probably get more attention in the modding community, which is still quite active.)
 
David Ben Gurion would also be good for the Israeli Modern Leaderhead. Moshe Dayan would also be a possibility, with his eye patch. His Diary of the Sinai Campaign is excellent reading.
 
Yeah, Golda Meir, Theodore Herzl, take your pick, just not Sharon or Bibi please or any of those twats please.
 
wazzbot said:
Ariel Sharon????? Please. It has to be Yitzhak Rabin, Ariel Sharon is an insult.
Click to expand...

I agree, that Yitzhak Rabin would be an excellent leader for Israel in era 4, but there is one very important fact, that should not be overlooked: There must exist a Civ 3 leaderhead in a good quality of Rabin. Please can you show me where to find such a Civ 3 leaderhead with the flics and advisor art files in a good quality or when you have finished the art work for such a leaderhead in a good quality? The art files of Sharon (done when he was the actual leader of Israel) are existing.
 
Civinator said:
I agree, that Yitzhak Rabin would be an excellent leader for Israel in era 4, but there is one very important fact, that should not be overlooked: There must exist a Civ 3 leaderhead in a good quality of Rabin. Please can you show me where to find such a Civ 3 leaderhead with the flics and advisor art files in a good quality or when you have finished the art work for such a leaderhead in a good quality? The art files of Sharon (done when he was the actual leader of Israel) are existing.
Click to expand...

You have a good point, Civinator. Many times, you go with what you have, not what is the optimum.
 
You always go with the optimum. Sometimes that means sticking with what you have. When Yitzhak Rabin is available, Ariel Sharon is only optimum if you care about graphics over his awful politics.
 
Moderator Action: The Civ3 section isn't the place to discuss the politics of political leaders. Please stay on topic!
 
Infracted for PDMA.
I'm really struggling to imagine how, in a thread including the words 'isreal' and 'traits', we could avoid politics. Or is it specifically the politics of political leaders that has its' own subforum? I couldn't find that one.

In any case. I would give Israel 'agricultural' as it is, of course, the land of milk and honey. I would also make it scientific, as it is currently a leading light in the world of technology. I wouldn't want to discuss the idea that it could be militaristic as that might be construed as political. They couldn't be expansionist - they're not looking to invade other countries, but stay where they are. Except, of course, for the 6 day war. Oooops, we're straying dangerously close to politics here guys!

Moderator Action: If you have an issue with the site rules, please do it privately. Ignoring a PDMA warning and mod note isn't recommended. Three points for willfully ignoring your previous PDMA infraction. - Vincour
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
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