Which will the 6(5) new leaders be ? (for civilizations that are already in game)

Choose only two from the available options bellow , for which Leader you would prefer

  • Germany : Hitler

    Votes: 32 27.8%
  • Germany : Barbarossa

    Votes: 8 7.0%
  • Germany : Charlemagne

    Votes: 9 7.8%
  • France : Charles de Gaule

    Votes: 18 15.7%
  • France : Charlemagne

    Votes: 17 14.8%
  • Rome : Trajan

    Votes: 7 6.1%
  • Rome : Claudius

    Votes: 4 3.5%
  • Persia : Darius

    Votes: 25 21.7%
  • Persia :Shapur II

    Votes: 4 3.5%
  • Spain : Charles V

    Votes: 27 23.5%
  • Spain : Philip II

    Votes: 28 24.3%
  • Arabia : Abu Bakr

    Votes: 16 13.9%
  • Arabia :`Umar ibn al-Khattāb

    Votes: 5 4.3%
  • Japan : Meji

    Votes: 59 51.3%

  • Total voters
    115
Control of South East Asia, Indo-thai peninsula, the pacific, the coast of china, manchuria... As for Germany... ALL OF EUROPE (Spain, Italy & the Swiss). They ranned all over eastern europe and western europe. If Hitler had not made such a grave calculation as starting operation barbarrossa then Germany would probably be Europe, the swiss would have been attack and as for Italy and Spain... death...

Hitler pulled a economically ranned country back to being the superpower it once was. I mean with what he had done I would say 'PETER BEATTIE' the man who would not put him in at least.
 
After the Franco-Prussian war, Germany was as powerful relative to the rest of Europe as Hitler was before WWII. Does Bismarck's decision to not persue an empire or further wars with Europe mean that his Germany was less great?
 
The Hitler debate is pointless -- both sides brings up good points and counter-points defending their position, but never does it lead to a strong and sensible conclusion.

I have reason to believe that many Hitler-addition advocates are confined to the immediate pre-WWII to WWII time frames, but that's just me.
 
hmmmm... No. Its debatable in the same way that the earth being round is debatable.
 
remove this one, hit wrong button
 
Not exactly, the face of Europe by the time of the Nazis' had completly altered and for that matter Germany was stronger in the lead up to WWI than at the time of Bismark. Lets just think about Hitler a different way, what if he a been killed before the capture of Bohemia and Moravia and obviously the invasion of Poland. He was a former WWI officer who had been indured in the first world war and had been given the Iron Cross. He wasn't just some raving loony, he actually was someone. He had associated himself with Great German Generals like Hindenburg. He attempted a revolution in Munich in order to overhthrow a incompetant goverment and would fail. He went away came up with his plan and once ALL of the western world had gone bankrupt from the stockmarket crash he had his oppertunity to seize power. He used peoples hatred of the French over the quite obviously one sided terms of the treaty and did exactly as he promised. He used groups of people that people resented for various reasons such as Jews in order to take peoples focus off each other. Once in full control he took advantage of some very good circumstances and took back the Rhineland for Germany. Ignoring the reparations he rebuilt the economy. He ordered the construction of the Autoban, which is still there today in order to get people into some form of work and then ordered the creation of something else we still all use, the Volkswagen. He made the country better and made Germany probably the best country to live in during the lead up to the war. In fact during the war it was not until well into the war that the force of the war was even that felt. He turned a broken state into the powerhouse of Europe and it was. Don't give me this Germany was just as strong in Bismarks time as now. You know what, lets have a showdown, my 1939 Germany will kick your 1871 Germanys ass, in fact it'll hit your best for six and can go off and have a pie whilst waiting for it to come back, oh... wait, its escaped earths gravitational pull. But seriously if Hitler had died or stepped down before the war he would be in this game as one of the Greatest leaders of our time. Yes, he broke international aggreements but, who cares, the treaty of Versailles was seen as unfair in Britain and the USA, it was the only reason appeasement got off the ground. Now c'mon biatch I take down your trench warfare with my Blitzkrieg.
 
These are the kinds of messages that only affirm my beliefs.

As someone said earlier, you do not decide someone is great by just a part of what he/she did. You must read his/her entire profile. It's like saying a serial killer is an okay person just because he worked for charity before murdering a whole bunch of people.
 
Why do you think he should not be in the game if not for the reason of marketing. Give me a list of good reasons.
 
-There's still Frederick Barbarossa. Among others.
-Hitler as a leader won't spark much controversy, really, but his face would. Harder to censor that way (you can't just change his name with a fictional character--I mean, the mustache!).
-The term "Holocaust" affects more Western people than "Great Purge" or "Cultural Revolution."
 
Boys and Girls does it always have to turn to Hitler discussion ? We discussed this before.
I think we can find other relevant things to discuss. Like why Boudica of the Celts or who the remaining 4 will be.
 
Well, there's always someone bringing it up! *pouts*

The mods should warn all people who bring up points on Hitler that have been discussed before, at least in the same thread.
 
Remaining 4
Lets think of who they added last time
Ramses II -Egypt only had one whilst it was Hitsorically very important
Winston Churchill -England, very significant in recent times and now has 3
Stalin -Russia, like England very significant and now has 3

So we got to ancient being turned into 2 and 2 current turned into 3, following this pattern I would say 3 ancient add ons and 3 modern (not only modern leaders) add ons.

For the current time we now have Abe Lincoln of the USA, fits the pattern perfectly and we also have Boudica, Celts also very important in ancient europe and now they have 2 because of it.

So the next two for the modern would be logically Germany and France to fit with the pattern of America, England and Russia.

Ancient is harder to guess but I would place bets on Persia and Carthage. Also fits with the Celts, Romans & Egypt.

Can anyone think of a list of the best leaders for this scenario of choices by Firaxis?
 
According to a voting game by SkippyT, people are expect/want to see Pericles of the Greeks and Emperor Meiji of Japan; those two makes sense if they do show up, considering that (1) those two have contributed a lot to the identity of their respective civilizations and (2) both Greece and Japan only have one leader each (both are militaristic, I might add, so putting builder-type leaders will bring a new twist to the story).

So, that's one ancient, one modern.

France doesn't really need a new leader IMHO because it's already represented as cultural France of the Renaissance to more recent years and powerhouse France of the Middle to Napoleonic Ages. So, maybe a medieval leader (maybe it's really 2-2-2, ancient-middle to renaissance-modern).

The ancients should get Ug, Discoverer of Fire. He can be a leader to any civilization, and he will be both Philosophical and Aggressive, denoting his pursuits of knowledge and his manly caveman nature (change Alexander to Phi/Chm or something!). His first-meeting message will go like: "Ug friend. If Ug not friend of <leader>, Ug crush <leader> with Ug's stick."
 
-Hitler as a leader won't spark much controversy, really, but his face would. Harder to censor that way (you can't just change his name with a fictional character--I mean, the mustache!).
Thats okay, we'll rename him Adenoid Hynkel.
 
Japan and Greece would also follow on with the pattern. Japan being one of the most powerful Eastern countries of the modern era, and Greece being one of the greats of the Ancients. Come to think of it lets go slightly more general about this. My top four for Post-Medieval/Modern:
1. Germany
2. Japan
3. Spain
4. France

And for Ancient/Medieval:
1. Greece
2. Persia
3. Carthage
4. Ottomans

Oh, leaders who have contributed a lot to the identity of their respective civilizations, *cough, cough*. East & West, Israel, Iron Curtain...

I think that great leaders should have changed the world around them...

Oh, and Ug would have been prehistoric not ancient. Get your terms right or join the ALP.
 
-There's still Frederick Barbarossa. Among others.
-Hitler as a leader won't spark much controversy, really, but his face would. Harder to censor that way (you can't just change his name with a fictional character--I mean, the mustache!).
-The term "Holocaust" affects more Western people than "Great Purge" or "Cultural Revolution."

:clap:

You mean there are more German leaders to pick from than just Hitler? And I didn't have to post it! I feel so loved...

Why not consider Otto the Great along with Barbarossa?
 
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