which wonders to build?

[mystyfly]

I've just jumped up from playing noble up to monarch )), mainly because i got pissed off having 4k pts in score while the second civ only has about 2k. well, obviously i first started a game on prince which i won with about similar dominating the game. i should add that i first only played maybe... one game in a month, but i've read a lot of articles here.

now, one thing i think is very important while moving up in difficulty: specializing cities, that includes building only certain buildings in a city, and almost more important, not building that many wonders (well, one thing is you wont get that many anyway...)

i usually build the great wall for some nice espy and, if i get the possibility, the oracle, and the pyramids. pyramids i usually get, which is nice since i use the SE. the last really important wonder to me is the statue of zeus, since i play pretty aggressively and when i dont build it, i may be sure that my closest neighboor gets it...

btw, i havent finished any monarch game yet, but the first is gonna be finished today evening or tomorrow; its now 1913 and i only still need about 5% of the landmass, which will be piece of a cake since i've got the largest army, containing panzers, marines, artillery, infantry, while two of the three remaining AI civs only got rifleman some turns ago and the last civ is no thread either, he's busy fighting someone else. UN was built somewhere, and i self-elected me for general secretary , so i think i can consider this game as won i think...

Now i ask which wonders YOU usually build...

greez
mystyfly

 

[njorls]

Oracle is probably the one I buld most. But I rarely build an early wonder unless I have the resource to make it double speed (oracle/stonehenge being the exceptions). I'd rather REX or build an army instead.

So it depends on what the map gives me.

 

[Leventis]

Of course this is a pretty general question, and which wonders I go for will obviously vary from game to game. In 95% of my games though, there are two wonders which I will always pursue: The Oracle and The Great Library. I think these two wonders can be incorporated in a range of strategies, and therefore hammers are rarely wasted in them.

For Example: The Oracle gives you a nice early free tech like CoL for expansion and Confucianism, or Metal Casting for early forges. Plus, it can also give an early GProphet which can be used for a holy shrine, or can pop Theology to grant early access to theocracy for some warfare. In short, this is a great wonder for economy and/or warfare.

Playing on Monarch, I think you have to be a bit more selective on which early wonders you go after, since you definitely can't snag them all. However, I have found that by mid-game I can get any wonder I need--such is my tech-advantage due to playing a sound opening.

 

[Antilogic]

Being that I rarely go down the Mysticism tech route early on and instead focus on Bronze Working and Writing, I rarely get to build the Oracle. It is a nice wonder, though.

I don't have a must-build wonder, although I tend to like Notre Dame for it's +2 on the continent. Plus, it comes in the Medieval Era, when I typically start building more wonders after the early game.

 

[seizer]

For me it's probably Stone Henge. I generally don't go down the religious path so the Oracle is usually out, and the free monuments saves a lot of hammers when you're rexing. If I have a decent chance of getting them, I also usually go for the Apostolic Palace/University of Sankore/Spiral Mineret combo.

 

[madscientist]

Almost all wonders have their value given certain situations, and each may not be worth it. I play most of my games on monarch and can generally get most wonders, IF I put my mind to it and get enough of a headstart. Also some of the industrious leaders make getting wonders impossible (HC, Bismark, Ramses, come to mind).

Here are some situations where they should be agressive sought for some of the early wonders

1) Stonehenge: High priority if you are charismatic, very low if creative. Stone is insignificant since by the time you have stone hooked up stonehenge will generally be built. Allows very early great prophet which can used to bulb theology to found christianity and start AP first; or, get an early shrine from one of the early religion or confuscism if you took COL with oracle. Most prized amongst Egyptians and Zara.

2) Oracle: High priority with industrious leaders (actually high with all) since the oracle slingshot is the fastest way to metal casting and thus those early and cheap forges. Also great to get COL for a free relgion and accumulate GPs for a prophet and shrine. Alot of posters use the oracle for things like fuedalism and mchinery but I have never done that gamble. HC is exceptional on this since he starts with mysticism and is industrious, plus he can efend cities well with his UU delaying the traditional military techs.

3) Pyramids: Best with stone, if you have access to it always go for the pyramids regardless of who you are. Those early government civics are killers with the extra happiness. Ideal for philosophical leaders because the accelerated GP production and representation are an overpowered early combo.

4) Great Wall: Underestimated in my opinion as it is the only early wonder who'e effects are just as useful late in the game as early. The Great spy points can lead to alot of stolen techs, and that 100% GG points are awesome and carry over to ocean tiles, so privateers are ideal for producing GGs. BArbarian protection really helps if you are landlocked without any terrain to use for defense. The Imperialistic trait greatly benefits form this wonder as GGs come 3 times faster than non-imperialistic leaders. If your imperialistic and get the GW, start preparing for war. Special emphasis on Cyrus who is way overpowered militarily if he gets the GW early.

5) Great Lighthouse: Awesome for any leader who can build most if not all his cities on the coast. Limitation is no resource speeds up it's construction and you need sailing and a lighthouse as prerequisites. Easier with organized leaders since they build lighthouses at ouble speed.

6) Colossus: Brutal with any financial leader who has a significant number of sea/lake tiles to work. PArticularly useful if you get metal casting off the oracle and can built it early and harvest the extra commerce tile for a long time.

7) Temple of Armetis: Difficult to get as it's popular with the AI and requires a coastal capital to exploit the 100% trade route yield. Has it's uses but best for a coastal capital where you want to pump out Great Prophets.

8) PArthenon: 50% GP points BUT add great artists points increses the chances of a great artist. Best if build NOT in your GP farm city, and worth the effort IF you get aestetics early and have marble. Agustus greatly benefits from this wonder, coupled with the UB gets 75% GP points for a long time and since he is industrious wonderspamming in Rome can lead to an overpowered Roman empire. Agustus with the Parthenon is the closest to the overpowered and illegal industrious/philosophical trait combo in teh game

That's the way I look at the early wonders on Monarch level.

 

[Leventis]

4) Great Wall: 100% GG points are awesome and carry over to ocean tiles, so privateers are ideal for producing GGs.

Good point, I have to remember that next time I get privateers. Never even though of ocean tiles and GW.

 

[aronnax]

I will always build the Stonehendge, its a nice cheap and early wonder you can build while waiting to priesthood to be done, then you can build the Oracle! The Stonehenge is a good early wonder as it allows you to pop your borders quickly early on if you are not using creative.

The Oracle is also a must for any player because its a free tech!

I also almost always build both the Great Lighthouse and the Colussus together. They rocked money hard and are cheaper than other wonders

Other must have is the Great Library and the University of Sankore, brilliant for beakers and also the statue of Zeus for those warmongers out there

 

[madscientist]

Of some of the later woners

1) Statue of Zues: Never a bad deal for any leader, but as mentioned above it is great for the pure war mongers. Special note: It is not as effective against the leader with the pyramids as they can shift into police state to minimize war weariness and then you are at a disadvantage as they can build military 25% faster, a big deal early on.
2) Great Library: Always good to build but leverage is phenominal for a philosphical leader who also nailed the pyramids!
3) University of Sankore: Preferred for spiritual leaders (cheap temples) who plan to stick with a religion throughout the game. If you are planning to switch to free religion after liberalism, this is a complete waste of hammers.
4) Spiral Minerat: See Univerisyt of Sankore. Special note: build banks in all cities with this wonder.
5) Notre Dame: The happiness is always a benefit but to be honest, by the time it's available happiness is not that much of a problem. Not very useful for charismatic leaders, or if you have alot of happy resources.
6) Sistene Chapel: Very powerful for cultural victories. Also very useful if you are trying to win land and/or resources via cultural pressure in a peaceful manner. Not very useful for creative leaders UNLESS going for a cultural victory.
7) Taj Mahal: Who can argue with a free golden age. Easy to get if you get liberalism first, early and have marble. USefull for all leaders.
8) Museum of Mauselous: 50% GA extention is a good deal and lasts all the way through space ship production era. Multiple GAs with a philosphical leader and pacificism can lead to a run away tech advantage.
9) Hag Nami (Whatever the name is): One of the weekest wonders and good for 2 things, great engineer points and helping to clear out jungles if gotten early on. If you are relatively close to steam power, do not build.
9) Versailes: Very useful if you have a large empire from war, are not organized, and do not want to use state property. Otherwise not generally worthwhile.
10) Hanging Gardens: A tricky woner, the +1 health is useful but only applied to cities established at the time the wonder is built. Worth GE points and population expansion providing you have the happiness to support it. Not too useful for expansive leaders.
11) Statue of Liberty: Flat out one of the most powerful wonders IF YOU ARE NOT ON an archepolego map. Combined with representation is pretty powerful, but also useful for cultural wins and expanding borders of captured cities. IS map dependent and not leader dependent

 

[xanadux]

The Great Wall is very strong. You can build what is best for your empire without worrying about barbarians, and an early Great Spy is the best Great Person in the game.

The Pyramids: If it is feasible, do it. If you have stone or are Industrious, it should probably be built unless you have no forests. Representation, Police State, and Hereditary Rule early are all nice bonuses. Monarch level and below, this can usually be put off until you have Mathematics for more efficient chopping. When planning on a pure SE, I will sacrifice quite a bit to make sure to get the Pyramids for Representation.

Hanging Gardens: Very nice if Ind/have stone. Any Great Engineer wonder is a nice wonder for GE points alone. Without Ind or stone, often too expensive to be worth it considering you have to build an aqueduct as well that you may not need.

Stonehenge: has to be gotten early on monarch and above. Can be useful for strategies where an early Great Prophet is very strong. Although Great Prophet points are nice and this wonder is cheap, often not worth the loss of expansion since it must be built so early.

Oracle: If you are playing at a level where you can get a useful tech, it isn't necessary. If playing at a higher level, you won't get a useful tech and will stunt your growth. Either way, you have to research techs that don't help you build your empire to get it. Probably only a good idea at monarch or emperor if pursuing a cultural win (you are researching early religious techs) and are also Ind and have marble.

Great Library: A very strong wonder, if for only the 8 great scientist points. A high priority for a Specialist Economy, whether running Representation from Pyramids or not.

Parthenon: Cheap and easy to get. I highly recommend this wonder unless you have a game where you will generate very few Great People.

Statue of Zeus: This wonder doesn't really help you, but prevents the AI from harming you. Prioritize it more if AIs on your landmass are Industrious or have the techs to build it early.

University of Sankore/Spiral Minaret: If you have a large empire with a wide spread state religion, these are incredibly strong and well worth their weight in hammers.

Apostolic Palace: This wonder is an easy 4 hammers for every city. But the tech for it is mostly useless and very expensive. If you have a religion whore on your continent, watch for them getting Theology, and shortly thereafter make sure you have the same state religion as them. A good wonder to let someone else build and reap the benefits. Capture it rather than build it usually.

Sistine Chapel: Not a must, but a huge boost for cultural victory. Also strong for domination and conquest as your new cities can pop borders very quickly. At higher levels, can be good to build just to keep out of AIs hands. With several religions and cathedrals built, this wonder can be worth 80+ culture per turn.

The Pentagon: With this wonder, all cities with a barracks can produce 2 promotion units. Very powerful for late game war with many production cities.

I may have missed some of the key wonders, but these are what I consider the most important (with the exception of the Oracle, which I include because many people think it is important when it isn't).

 

[mystyfly]

thank you for your opinions/advice!

i agree with most that has been said here, maybe except about some things about stonehenge. i think building stonehenge just stops early growth very much, and since land is power this is something i avoid. IMO, stonehenge only makes sense if you are charismatic.

If you build the GW, you should research the abc before the 123 (obviously), but otherwise, i usually research math -> calendar for higher happy cap (there are usually some ressources you can only use after calendar) and for the mausoleum of harnikallos (german version of this wonder's name.. ). later i go for the other mausoleum wonder, taj mahal. those seemingly everlasting GAs are overkill

hmm, i seem to have forgotten the GL in my first post here, i often pursue it, its very nice to have doesnt matter which leader you're playing..

greez
Mystyfly

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

I always build the Great Library so I can get an abnormally large tech lead. Great Wall is wonderful for neglecting early military, as well as for starting a spy economy.

 

[oyzar]

Great library is probably the best wonder in the game. In some game types hanging gardens is awesome. Most others aren't very good though with some starts oracle can be nice.

 

[gallego]

I actually find myself going less and less towards the Great Library when I don't have marble. Assuming you want to build it in your capital or GP farm, by the time it comes around I have tons of scientists running. If I don't have an engineer, I have to take a lot of them off duty to build the thing or else it takes forever. If you want to build the National Epic as well, then your city is going to be occupied for a long time building and not with scientists. And besides, the thing goes obsolete before long, so I usually find it better to just keep my 5-7 scientists running strong without interruptions.

 

[mystyfly]

I actually find myself going less and less towards the Great Library when I don't have marble. Assuming you want to build it in your capital or GP farm, by the time it comes around I have tons of scientists running. If I don't have an engineer, I have to take a lot of them off duty to build the thing or else it takes forever. If you want to build the National Epic as well, then your city is going to be occupied for a long time building and not with scientists. And besides, the thing goes obsolete before long, so I usually find it better to just keep my 5-7 scientists running strong without interruptions.

I think you've got your point. But if you build it in your capital, which usually creates your first GPs and usually has some production as well as library, the GL is very strong, since those GS Points are pretty nice.
Super Science city will be busy building University of Oxford for long enought...