westamastaflash
Lord Commander
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2007
- Messages
- 933
Perhaps the duration should be adjusted by gamespeed...
Which World Spells are to powerful?
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
Perhaps the duration should be adjusted by gamespeed...
Ecofarm
Deity
Seconded.....
That would make the spell kind of pointless....
If it was an order city then it would just get taken back by the civ it was taken from as they would already have low relation with Hyborem.
And besides i doubt Hyborem would be able to convince the fanatics of the Order to join him, atleast with the ashen veil city it made sense thematically.
TheGreenLink
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2007
- Messages
- 23
Maybe the whisper spell should convert various non-AV cities to AV, or something of the sort... I personally think taking ANY AV city is too powerful.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
My ideas for Hyborem's Wisper:
What if let you take over Cities with AV religion present only if they belong to civs without the AV state religion?
How about instead letting you force any civ with at least 1 city wiht AV to adopt the Ashen Veil as their State Religion?
How about letting you force one AV civ to become your vassal?
How about spreading AV to every city in the world (or if that is too powerful, to every civ on your continent or all civs in a particular rivals empire)?
Better yet, how about having a choice between these options listed above? (I'd like it if a lot of spells, especialy world spells, triggered events that let you choose one of several different effects, which would be better suited to different situations. )
What if let you take over Cities with AV religion present only if they belong to civs without the AV state religion?
How about instead letting you force any civ with at least 1 city wiht AV to adopt the Ashen Veil as their State Religion?
How about letting you force one AV civ to become your vassal?
How about spreading AV to every city in the world (or if that is too powerful, to every civ on your continent or all civs in a particular rivals empire)?
Better yet, how about having a choice between these options listed above? (I'd like it if a lot of spells, especialy world spells, triggered events that let you choose one of several different effects, which would be better suited to different situations. )
xienwolf
Deity
Just needs to have AV in the city, so it could be one from an enemy if you planned ahead well enough to have open borders and spread it before you summon Hyborem.
Ecofarm
Deity
An advanced start Luchuirp (default points).
With cities being so cheap, you just build ~6 of them and cast world spell. Then move all golden hammers to the cap via scouts, delete the scouts, and put all 6 golden hammers in the cap as engineers. Granted, this is pretty exploity. Luchuirp + advanced start (default points) = pretty broke, even if you do not move the hammers. The problem is that cities are so cheap and Luchuirp's world spell is based on number of cities. Without advanced start, it seems to be fine.
I posted this elsewhere, but thought I should note it in this thread.
With cities being so cheap, you just build ~6 of them and cast world spell. Then move all golden hammers to the cap via scouts, delete the scouts, and put all 6 golden hammers in the cap as engineers. Granted, this is pretty exploity. Luchuirp + advanced start (default points) = pretty broke, even if you do not move the hammers. The problem is that cities are so cheap and Luchuirp's world spell is based on number of cities. Without advanced start, it seems to be fine.
I posted this elsewhere, but thought I should note it in this thread.
Some nice ideas, however i don't think all of them are balanced enough to work as Hyborem's spell
The first one doesn't seem to have any problems,
The second one seems overpowered and un thematical, think of the Elohim, they wouldn't convert to AV just for one city, and if you have any heroes from your previous religion you would lose them all? And having a few turns of rebellion trying to change your religion back? Yeah seems overpowered.
The third one could work but would most likely render the spell useless. Hyborem doesn't start with much land of many points so the majority of civs that he could force to be his vassal would probabaly be released a few turns later.
For the fourth one, every city in the world seems really overpowered it would probabaly give you a religion victory. Every city on the continent seems better but if your playing on a large continenet or a pangaea then you could still get a religion victory fairly easy, and even without the religious victory ashen veil cities drive up the AC, so it would get high alot faster.
I just played a game and used March of the Trees. Got 130 treants, give or take. It was a heavily wooded map, so everything within 10 squares of me died pretty brutally, including the world event red dragon (took about 8 treants to kill, ho hum). Eliminated three fully loaded AI civs.
Sure, it butchers your economy, but wiping out all your nearby enemies is quite worth it. I'd probably be pissed off losing to this. There's just no way to defend against that many units. Plus, it took me like 20 minutes per turn, moving that many guys around. So that was kind of annoying.
On a non-foresty map, I could see it being less of an issue, but the treants get double movement in forests, so they could rocket a screen or two across the map before they died.
(Also, the documentation on it says they create forests when they go away, but they don't.)
Sure, it butchers your economy, but wiping out all your nearby enemies is quite worth it. I'd probably be pissed off losing to this. There's just no way to defend against that many units. Plus, it took me like 20 minutes per turn, moving that many guys around. So that was kind of annoying.
On a non-foresty map, I could see it being less of an issue, but the treants get double movement in forests, so they could rocket a screen or two across the map before they died.
(Also, the documentation on it says they create forests when they go away, but they don't.)
It does Holy damage. The damage cap is 100 (i.e., it can kill), base damage is 50, and the caster appears to be the casting unit (although I didn't double-check the last bit).
So make certain that you cast it with your Combat V archmage
Code:
if (pUnit.getRace() == iDemon or pUnit.getRace() == iUndead):
pUnit.doDamage(50, 100, caster, gc.getInfoTypeForString('DAMAGE_HOLY'), false)
Marchwik
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2007
- Messages
- 60
All spells are good,some are better than others.when I playing Malakim they have poor spell for example.The best of the best spell for me is "River of Blood",one of the few spells develop Your economy as well.
When I will be able to change sth I will change few things but most important are civics like CityStates.
When I will be able to change sth I will change few things but most important are civics like CityStates.
cabbagemeister
Please wait...
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2008
- Messages
- 517
March of the Trees is so powerful that I will not under any circumstances invade Ljos unless they have already used the spell. For this reason fighting the AI Ljos seems at least as much about diplomacy as military (can I convince someone else to declare on them and force them to use MotT?). I love the flavor this adds to the game and I would never want the spell nerfed. That being said, I just hate it when I play Erebus and the Ljos are squatting on the only exit from my valley....
Blackmantle
King
Yea,
thread necromancy.
I don't guess its much of a problem now since profound changes have been done (especially to early civ killers like raging seas. March of the Trees has allready got a tech requirement and some others) since the poll was started... (to see how balanced they are shortly after beeing introduced...)
Honestly, they ought to be powerful. Just not civ-killers on Turn 1.
So someone either make a new poll or just close this one and let it die. Otherwise you mingle 2 polls with different preconditions getting a distorted picture not helping anyone alot really.
If anything a few which are problematic perhaps might if anything merit discussion in their own threads...
thread necromancy.
I don't guess its much of a problem now since profound changes have been done (especially to early civ killers like raging seas. March of the Trees has allready got a tech requirement and some others) since the poll was started... (to see how balanced they are shortly after beeing introduced...)
Honestly, they ought to be powerful. Just not civ-killers on Turn 1.
So someone either make a new poll or just close this one and let it die. Otherwise you mingle 2 polls with different preconditions getting a distorted picture not helping anyone alot really.
If anything a few which are problematic perhaps might if anything merit discussion in their own threads...
Avahz Darkwood
Emperor
You left out Armageddon that tends to kill most of my living hero units...
My vote was for the Lunan world spell. Does way too much damage for a civ that already has a good bit going for it...
that tends to kill most of my living hero units...My vote was for the Lunan world spell. Does way too much damage for a civ that already has a good bit going for it...
westamastaflash
Lord Commander
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2007
- Messages
- 933
The Chip spell is still broken. If it required Construction...
Monkeyfinger
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2006
- Messages
- 2,002
They're all fine except for the Luchuirp and Lanun ones, which need tech requirements, even very early ones, to reign them in. I know you're going to make the Luchuirp one require Masonry, which by my own tests with that requirement works great. Lanun one needs something similar.
Might as well voice why I think some of the complained about ones are balanced:
Ardor would be overpowered on any civ except for the one it's on. Considering the Grigori's drawbacks and how little a hero swarm helps after the early game, though, it works for them.
Hyborem's Whisper and Divine Retribution are tools for the latecomer civs to get a foothold. I approve. If you don't want to be screwed over by them, don't use AV, and don't rely on demons to comprise your army.
March of the Trees is sick on a specific maptype, one where you're surrounded on most if not all sides and don't need to use your economy to build the foundation of a naval assault and don't have some huge rival that you need an economy to outrace. Such situations are rare enough, IMO, that the spell is balanced. Like, if you're playing on a decent sized pangaea, you won't worry about the first two things, but there will probably be some runaway AI who takes a bunch of vassals and has buffer states between you and him, and you don't want to throw away your economy if you have to eventually deal with someone like that. And WTH, the AI sucks with march of the trees. Just turtle up your border cities, declare war, and waity 5 turns before attacking.
Sanctuary's fine on normal speed, the speed FfH is balanced around. Make it scale to game speed or not, I don't care. It's not like I play any speed other than normal these days.
For the Horde's use is unintuitive, but great - it's like a free version of Marco Polo's Embassy or the Empath Guild. It's actually kind of worthless as a military augmentation though, since it gives you crappy units which are all spread out and that drain your treasury. Deleting the ones that are far away from your empire is a good idea. For that reason, it's balanced, if one of the better ones.
Might as well voice why I think some of the complained about ones are balanced:
Ardor would be overpowered on any civ except for the one it's on. Considering the Grigori's drawbacks and how little a hero swarm helps after the early game, though, it works for them.
Hyborem's Whisper and Divine Retribution are tools for the latecomer civs to get a foothold. I approve. If you don't want to be screwed over by them, don't use AV, and don't rely on demons to comprise your army.
March of the Trees is sick on a specific maptype, one where you're surrounded on most if not all sides and don't need to use your economy to build the foundation of a naval assault and don't have some huge rival that you need an economy to outrace. Such situations are rare enough, IMO, that the spell is balanced. Like, if you're playing on a decent sized pangaea, you won't worry about the first two things, but there will probably be some runaway AI who takes a bunch of vassals and has buffer states between you and him, and you don't want to throw away your economy if you have to eventually deal with someone like that. And WTH, the AI sucks with march of the trees. Just turtle up your border cities, declare war, and waity 5 turns before attacking.
Sanctuary's fine on normal speed, the speed FfH is balanced around. Make it scale to game speed or not, I don't care. It's not like I play any speed other than normal these days.
For the Horde's use is unintuitive, but great - it's like a free version of Marco Polo's Embassy or the Empath Guild. It's actually kind of worthless as a military augmentation though, since it gives you crappy units which are all spread out and that drain your treasury. Deleting the ones that are far away from your empire is a good idea. For that reason, it's balanced, if one of the better ones.
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