Toaae
Rogue
0/1/1
Special Ability: Bombard that makes the enemy have peace and get everybody high so you can just march in?
Which would be your choice to replace the F-15 as the American UU?
- Thread starter nihil8r
- Start date
0/1/1
Special Ability: Bombard that makes the enemy have peace and get everybody high so you can just march in?
Chauliodus
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2003
- Messages
- 292
How bout the Iowa, last, most powerful battleship class made.
Not sure about stats, but could have it carry 2 cruise missles, increased bombardment and an extra movement point.
Not sure about stats, but could have it carry 2 cruise missles, increased bombardment and an extra movement point.
planetfall
Emperor
Thanks for the full info. Interesting perhaps I am. It's what ever plane is in the Air Force Musuem in Ohio. I remembered it as being an ME262 but it definitely only had one engine and was a bit reministent of an admusement park ride for kids. A bit like a mini tug boat in design. The plane, i.e. shell around the motor, sat on top of the engine., kind of like an airborne motorbike.
From the old game Luftwaffe I recall the me262 as being a prime fighter. But as I recall the me262, although having better flight characteristics than the me163, i.e, not quite a suicide machine. It was still plagued with production quality problems and a limited range. Strange how this game makes you revisit history and correct faulty memories.
About GW, shhhh. What's wrong in sneaking in a desirable trait for a deserving people? Actually I scoped it as an early force behind the rise of nationalism rather than a religious trait. I think the problem with Germany is good arguments can be made for traits of: 1) scientific, 2) religious, 3) industrious, and 4) commercial. Not expansionist . This game limits any civ to 2 traits. Who knows why the game associated traits were selected.
Sorry if a bit incoherent, falling asleep on keyboard. Later.
== PF
Chauliodus
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2003
- Messages
- 292
Me 262
The Me 163 wasn't really a suicide machine, but was still dangerous to its pilot. Most notably when its rocket cut out it became a sitting duck as it glided back to base and one of the two parts of its fuel more or less melts organic material and was located right behind the cockpit....
Range wasn't a primary concern for the Me-262 since its original role was an interceptor. Production was a problem first by Hitlers demand for it to be a bomber which delayed its service by nearly a year, then by the lack of parts towards the end of the war (its jet engines had a serivce life of 1-2 flights IIRC).
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Finally someone else noticed this about marines! I was scrolling through the thread and was getting more and more like "whoa" at the lack of catching this.
Also, marines cost 120 right now.
I would say the f-15 is a good choice, but needs to be completely bomber oriented. Like, at least 8x3 bombard w/ lethal (like the old bomber with the new bomber's lethalness).
Masquerouge
Deity
I think the Tomahawk is a good idea, especially with the lethal bombard. I'll even make it SURE that it kills at least one unit.
G
Gainy
Guest
All of the UU's in the game (I think) were noticeably better than the standard units of that type used by the other Civs at that time period.
I don't know much about the Tomahawk, but the rest do not fit this criteria.
Ie, the SEAL. The British are equally as well known as the Americans for their Marine type thingies - hence it wouldn't be suitable.
The Flying Fortress... The Junker was also pretty dang good, and there was that English guy that made one on par also (can't remember the name of it).
Carrier? nah. Besides the fact that it would be difficult to trigger a GA.
Frontiersman - You would again get all the people complaining about no military GA, as well as the fact as there were other equally as good, if not better, explorers.
With the F-15, you can trigger a golden age, and it was/is/whatever infinately superior to other fighters. If a better UU was given to the Americans, that would drastically unbalance the game anyways (their traits are really good)
I don't know much about the Tomahawk, but the rest do not fit this criteria.
Ie, the SEAL. The British are equally as well known as the Americans for their Marine type thingies - hence it wouldn't be suitable.
The Flying Fortress... The Junker was also pretty dang good, and there was that English guy that made one on par also (can't remember the name of it).
Carrier? nah. Besides the fact that it would be difficult to trigger a GA.
Frontiersman - You would again get all the people complaining about no military GA, as well as the fact as there were other equally as good, if not better, explorers.
With the F-15, you can trigger a golden age, and it was/is/whatever infinately superior to other fighters. If a better UU was given to the Americans, that would drastically unbalance the game anyways (their traits are really good)
Chauliodus
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2003
- Messages
- 292
SEAL is a poor choice for an Americian Marine unit due to it being just a small SF.
Noone can come close to Americas use of Marines, they litterally reinvented them during WWII.
Germany never built a heavy bomber, all the bomber they made were designed to assist on a tactical level and faired poorly (ie: the Battle of Britain) when used strategically.
The British bomber your prolly think of is the Lancaster, a heavy bomber that was equal or better than the B-17.
planetfall
Emperor
Chauliodus,
Thank you for the further information. Last night I was thinking the plane was called the Komet but had not researched that to verify yet. And definitely was the me163 I was confusing with the me262.
And yes calling it a suicide machine was a bit of over emphasis. It really didn't just last one flight, but it would not last 10.
Now if we just had an me262 unit, that would be cool. Your image matches my refreshed memory of the me262. This would be a great 2nd UU for Germany. I don't think it would be as valuable as any of the German tanks for the primary UU.
Again great info. Love the sharing1!!
== PF
Thank you for the further information. Last night I was thinking the plane was called the Komet but had not researched that to verify yet. And definitely was the me163 I was confusing with the me262.
And yes calling it a suicide machine was a bit of over emphasis. It really didn't just last one flight, but it would not last 10.
Now if we just had an me262 unit, that would be cool. Your image matches my refreshed memory of the me262. This would be a great 2nd UU for Germany. I don't think it would be as valuable as any of the German tanks for the primary UU.
Again great info. Love the sharing1!!
== PF
dojoboy
Tsalagi
Of your choices, I selected the frontiersman. But, I feel the Minuteman should have been America's UU.
Michael York
On Sabatical from Civ
Jaybe, excellent point regarding the B-24s. I almost went into them during my post. If memory serves me, they had better range and a larger payload, but were no where near as good as the FFs at bringing their boys home (which was, of course, a major problem even for the FFs). I would see the FF's as a UU to represent the range of being a heavy bomber, but the real advantage would be a greater resistance to being intercepted. RAF bomber command didn't have as many Lancasters (7k) as the USAAF heavy bombers (12k B-17s, 18k B-24s) They were quite formidable, never the less. Besides, there are too many choices for british UUs.
I actually think the B-29 or the B-52 would be better. The only real problem I have with the B-52 is that it would look goofy getting shot down by WW2 aircraft. I don't think I need to go into their rightfull place as a UU.
It would be really powerfull if it had lethal air & sea bombard as well as the ability to take out 5hp units.
BTW, has anyone else noticed that the civpedia lists the F-15 as the successor to the F-14? Hmm, since they were both developed at the same time, and one (14) is a carrier based interceptor while the other (15) is a land based air superiority fighter, I find this interesting.
Edit:
Some other thoughts.
I don't like the idea of minutemen....they may have been significant to our history classes, but they were merely ordinary militia.
Another UU idea: Ohio Class nuclear subs. Since they completely outclass any other subs ever built (except the Virginias, Seawolfs, and Vanguards); they are quieter than quiet. There has never been another weapon platform that powerfull. (the Vanguards only carry 16 D5s, the Russian Typhoons, 20 missles). They carry 24 D5s, 12 warheads per missle: 24*12= 288 Thermonuclear warheads per sub.
Let them carry any extra tachtical nuke as well as give them a high enough defense to defeat other subs.
I don't like attack subs, for while we may be 20~30 yrs ahead of the Russians and 40yrs ahead of the Chinese, were only tied with the Brits.
I actually think the B-29 or the B-52 would be better. The only real problem I have with the B-52 is that it would look goofy getting shot down by WW2 aircraft. I don't think I need to go into their rightfull place as a UU.
It would be really powerfull if it had lethal air & sea bombard as well as the ability to take out 5hp units.
BTW, has anyone else noticed that the civpedia lists the F-15 as the successor to the F-14? Hmm, since they were both developed at the same time, and one (14) is a carrier based interceptor while the other (15) is a land based air superiority fighter, I find this interesting.
Edit:
Some other thoughts.
I don't like the idea of minutemen....they may have been significant to our history classes, but they were merely ordinary militia.
Another UU idea: Ohio Class nuclear subs. Since they completely outclass any other subs ever built (except the Virginias, Seawolfs, and Vanguards); they are quieter than quiet. There has never been another weapon platform that powerfull. (the Vanguards only carry 16 D5s, the Russian Typhoons, 20 missles). They carry 24 D5s, 12 warheads per missle: 24*12= 288 Thermonuclear warheads per sub.
Let them carry any extra tachtical nuke as well as give them a high enough defense to defeat other subs.
I don't like attack subs, for while we may be 20~30 yrs ahead of the Russians and 40yrs ahead of the Chinese, were only tied with the Brits.
bru
Prince
I think Frontiersman that has a stat of a Warrior with extra movement! It would be more relevant to the game that theF15.
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
If I may come into the discussion once more.... The "Komet" WAS a suicide machine, since as soon as the rocket engine went off, there was no way to restart it and the plane literally fell off from the sky. Have a look at the picture and you'll see that with out thrust there won't be any aerodynamic any more.
As far as I remember, the pilots had even no chance to escape from the cabin. AND it was piloted by rookies, who had just learned how to steer an airplane.
It's purpose was similar to the one of the F-104 "Starfighter": Go there ASAP, fire --- and good luck for the return.
(Well, the Starfighter of course was primarily designed to bring a nuclear payload to the target and had some better chances for return, but the principle stays the same...
)
Gogf
Indescribable
Okay, I have not read this whole thread, but... How about having a Special Ops, or Green Berets that replace Paratroopers? I like most of them, Minuteman, Supercarrier, Frontiersman, Seal, etc.
I think that America produced quite a bit of weapons technology in the civil war and there are some weapons that came about during WW I that could be incorporated into a UU. The weapons that could be incorporated into a UU might be:
- Winchester repeating rifle
- Gatlin gun
- Iron clad
- Improved cav unit with repeating handgun
- Infantry armed with a B.A.R (WW I type infantry or might be an improved rifleman eventhough the US govt never used the B.A.R in WW I for the fear of it falling into enemy hands)
- Sherman tank: This was not a strong machine compared to the German tanks but certainly many were produced and by virtue of sheer numbers the tanks overwhelemed the battlefield. (reduce cost tank)
- Mustang or Lightning Planes/fighter-bombers.
- Winchester repeating rifle
- Gatlin gun
- Iron clad
- Improved cav unit with repeating handgun
- Infantry armed with a B.A.R (WW I type infantry or might be an improved rifleman eventhough the US govt never used the B.A.R in WW I for the fear of it falling into enemy hands)
- Sherman tank: This was not a strong machine compared to the German tanks but certainly many were produced and by virtue of sheer numbers the tanks overwhelemed the battlefield. (reduce cost tank)
- Mustang or Lightning Planes/fighter-bombers.
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
Wasn't the Gatlin gun a successor of the Maxim cannon?
I think the succesor of the Gatlin gun was the volley gun which was a multibarreled cannon which dispensed .52 cal balls.
http://www.floridareenactorsonline.com/machinegun.htm
http://www.floridareenactorsonline.com/machinegun.htm
troytheface
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,262
minuteman, seal f15...other countries had just as good if not better units, the mig was a match for the f15, the british SAS is a match if not better than Seals or Rangers or Greenberet,
-Carriers...british had metal deck carriers which were superior-
..now the Ironclad would be a good one because the game already uses the Moniotor which was American and the forrunner of modern battle ships (its' turret) course i think a swede american (or somewhere around there ) invented it...
i would say that if something is deemed "unique" it is meaning one of a kind- and add to that that it helped that country dominate...(ie legion) than it would be the Atomic bomb- (some historians have speculated that its possession kept the soviets from continueing to sweep across Europe at the end of ww2)
Perhaps the U.S. should be able to build atomic bombs that can be transported by bombers before tactical nukes and icbm's are available. The bombers transporting them could be shot down so the lethal application could be kept in check, and too, the soon advance of tacticals ect. would outdate them. In conclusion i would say that the Ironclad monitor or the A bomb or the b52 would all be better defined as
unique, with the "A" bomb also fulfilling the "dominating" criterea much better than any of the other choices.
-Carriers...british had metal deck carriers which were superior-
..now the Ironclad would be a good one because the game already uses the Moniotor which was American and the forrunner of modern battle ships (its' turret) course i think a swede american (or somewhere around there ) invented it...
i would say that if something is deemed "unique" it is meaning one of a kind- and add to that that it helped that country dominate...(ie legion) than it would be the Atomic bomb- (some historians have speculated that its possession kept the soviets from continueing to sweep across Europe at the end of ww2)
Perhaps the U.S. should be able to build atomic bombs that can be transported by bombers before tactical nukes and icbm's are available. The bombers transporting them could be shot down so the lethal application could be kept in check, and too, the soon advance of tacticals ect. would outdate them. In conclusion i would say that the Ironclad monitor or the A bomb or the b52 would all be better defined as
unique, with the "A" bomb also fulfilling the "dominating" criterea much better than any of the other choices.
Michael York
On Sabatical from Civ
Commander Bello, I'm not familiar with the Maxim cannon, but the Gatling Gun was invented in 1861.
The Iron Clad would not make a good UU for the Royal Navy's Warrior and I don't recall the French Ironclads, predated USS Monitor & CSS Virginia.
Actually, most nations ought to receive a guided missle cruiser where the US ought to get the AEGIS Cruisers as a UU. (Japan has AEGIS destroyers, not cruisers. besides, they have F-15Js too)
The Iron Clad would not make a good UU for the Royal Navy's Warrior and I don't recall the French Ironclads, predated USS Monitor & CSS Virginia.
Actually, most nations ought to receive a guided missle cruiser where the US ought to get the AEGIS Cruisers as a UU. (Japan has AEGIS destroyers, not cruisers. besides, they have F-15Js too)
