While We Wait: Part 4
- Thread starter Thlayli
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Swissempire
Poet Jester
I didn't realize we were talking about Switzerland...
But wouldn't you agree we should try to stop them? There are economic theories out there that deal with the cycle and soften its impact. Academically it makes sense to say "Hey, it happens", but outside the ivory tower, people want someone to make sure their increasingly rundown neighbors don't get shot up by the "reaction to normal economic forces". Killing NAFTA is simply an impossible dream. Both candidates have very moderate positions on renegotiating it, and if a Democrat comes to office, it'll be more of a wonderful brand of "Lets screw with Globalization and make it work for America" and less of a free for all total free market style.
High spending though can stimulate the economy very much if your not sending all your dollars to the desert, giving tax breaks where they do nothing but make the top 1% richer, and generally not spending on public works or social programs.
As the Foreign Affairs that came out before this most recent one pointed out, a revolution in China is going to be nothing of the sort. Gradually China will democratize, but there isn't going to be some armed uprising that overthrows the communists. Instead, all the aspects of democracy will slowly form within the current structure until the current China crumbles away. The Poliburto is under constant pressure to grant more and more elections, more and more non Communist Party officials are being elected in local elections, and a two party system is developing with the Party Superstructure. They've see that free trade and economic growth, all bundled in the shiny wrapping of capitalism, work and if they want to keep growing, they need to keep becoming freer. This should be intuitive to a free trader like you, its basic Thomas L. Friedman
That was the Edwardsian theory, an while debating politics while 3 months behind the times is always nice, its not really helpful. There will be no more war, and in fact an Obama is much more likely to cooperate and even assist with Davos development than a McCain. Corporate Social Responsibility, the new prevailing wind in the free market world view, is inherently more inline with Obama democracy than anything else.
100% completely agree. I applaud you Michigander.
I'm almost positive that the Obama withdrawal will include either soft or hard partition of Iraq and the crisis will be avoided. It'll be very Biden-esque. Once the ethnicities have basic autonomy from each other, they'll want to peaceful reconstruct themselves and sell themselves to the outside world. Their competition to fill the vacuum spurred on the civil war and allowed terrorist groups to recruit and spawn and grow in Iraq. Once the terrorists are only killing citiziens of their new nation/autonomous region, the government will see no need for them and severly crackdown.
Head Serf
Emperor
Well, I will be voting McCain in the next election. I'm one of about six people who actually loves his immigration policy, and his policies in Iraq while a little bit... "hawkish"... are better than Obama's.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Vice president, governor of a state, and military command are fairly popular ones. Actually, Bill Clinton was the first President in history without any formal military experience, though Bush didn't beat him by much in that regard.
So have I. It's the same for all junior Senators.
They're definitely not given out on merit. I'm not sure if all junior senators are relegated to Hart, since I'm fairly sure Hillary's in the Russell building, though I might be wrong. It's interesting to walk from Hart to Dirksen to Russell; it feels like you're going back in time from modern to Vietnam-era to Wilsonian politics. (EDIT: Whenever anyone mentions the 'corridors of power,' I can't help but think about the Russell building. Imposing.)
Technically, we already have FAFSA. I agree that tuition is getting out of hand, but free handouts aren't going to solve that. Something *could* be done, though.
jalapeno_dude
AKA Panda Judo Eel
I had no problems with most of McCain's policies--then he changed them.
I liked his original immigration policy--but now he says that securing the border first is more important.
I liked that he opposed the Bush tax cuts--but now he says he supports them.
I realize he's trying to play to his base, but he's alienated me.
Symphony D.
Deity
Recently, I saw the most cutting witticism against Hillary's "experience" (which is just a load of crap and proof that if you repeat something often enough, people will believe it) and probably the best counter for McCain's (legitimate) claims to that argument:
"A lanky lawyer from Illinois who had served just one two-year term in the U.S. House of Representatives and had no other government experience in elective or executive office ran for president in 1860."
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
That's appealing, until you remember that Lincoln trampled all over habeas corpus and dragged screaming Democrats off in chains.
Actually, that's still rather appealing. To quote Obama, "I'm willing to concede the point."
Actually, that's still rather appealing. To quote Obama, "I'm willing to concede the point."
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Please, PLEASE, see my above comment.
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
I'm not worried about McCain's Iraq policy: I agree with it, for the most part. What I worry about is his policy on nations like, say, Iran.
The Vice Presidency honestly doesn't prepare you much at all. Neither does governor, except in the realm of budgets and appointing people, and honestly you have a staff for a reason. Military command only covers one area.
Well, I'm pretty sure all junior senators have small offices, at the least. All of the offices we passed in Hart were juniors, at least, and they were all pitifully small.
True, but some tuition breaks could definitely help.
Regardless of what Confederate apologists may like to say, we were in a legitimate war at that point, where we had a good deal of evidence that those men were actively trying to undermine the war effort. Heck, they were bordering on treason.
Swissempire
Poet Jester
*ahem*
"More than anything else, I want my candidacy to unify our country, to renew the American spirit and sense of purpose. I want to carry our message to every American, regardless of party affiliation, who is a member of this community of shared values . . . For those who have abandoned hope, we'll restore hope and we'll welcome them into a great national crusade to make America great again!"
Does that quote sound like its from Obama? Because its really from Reagan when he was running in 1980. They dismissed him too, as a candidate without policies and made of vacuous words. The times said of him when he got the nomination that he only spoke in "sweeping generalities about economic and military policy" and "a mouther of right-wing platitudes". Does any of this sound familiar? The Wall Street Journal pointed out that "Throughout his campaign, Reagan fought off charges that his candidacy was built more on optimism than policies".
Its quite simple really. Obama is a uniting figure with the cadre of intelligent supports, oodles of eloquence and carloads of charisma needed to start healing America.
EDIT: I also agree with North King completely on tuition breaks. Its getting ridiculous. I kinda liked the Richardson proposal for it. 1 year of National Service for 2 fully paid years of college. I'd go right into the Peace Corps.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Ah, NOW I remember. With each election cycle, the Senate offices are chosen according to chronological order from first election. It is seniority, but not necessarily in junior/senior order.
So, you could be the junior Senator from California, but on your 6th term, and the senior Senator's been around for 7 terms. You'll still be choosing an office (probably in Russell) early on with all of the older Senators.
EDIT: Obama's rhetoric is just as Clintonian as it is Reaganite. Some of Clinton's policies worked, but he definitely divided Congress with his perjury trial.
So, you could be the junior Senator from California, but on your 6th term, and the senior Senator's been around for 7 terms. You'll still be choosing an office (probably in Russell) early on with all of the older Senators.
EDIT: Obama's rhetoric is just as Clintonian as it is Reaganite. Some of Clinton's policies worked, but he definitely divided Congress with his perjury trial.
Symphony D.
Deity
And saved the country in the process. Then again, given how stupidly paranoid Americans are about things like the National ID (the governmental already can [and does] track you, and if you don't trust the government to know where you are, why on earth would you trust it with your healthcare, Hillary voters?), I could see how that might concern some people.
I just want to take this moment to point out Bill Clinton didn't accomplish anything other than cutting the jugular of the US Military, pulling out of Somalia due to opinion polls, and almost getting the balls to attack North Korea until he let Jimmy Carter of all people go in and work out a deal (which came back to haunt us a few years ago, if you'll recall).
The man did not contribute greatly to the economic success of America in the 1990s. That is a myth and a fabrication. The main benefits were from a technological boom (which was actually a bubble--its collapse combined with 9/11 was the reason for the economic downturn, not Bush mysteriously decimating the economy with Sith powers), and from Bush Sr.'s tax hikes and economic programs which got him booted out of office. On top of that, the "surplus" was grossly overstated, and never actually existed. It was a predicted surplus. Bill Clinton didn't do anything for anybody. He put a few band aids on some things and people treat him like he's the Democratic Ronald Reagan (which by the way, is why he blasted Obama for citing Reagan a few weeks back--he wasn't citing the Almighty Bill Clinton Savior of Democrats; the nerve
).I've never understood this argument. He's articulated his positions about as much as Hillary and McCain have. He's explained his Healthcare plan better than Hillary has (and it's a better plan), he's explained that he's interested is dismantling NAFTA, and he basically stated he would do what Petraeus said in Iraq. Which again is about as much as his opponents have said.
Probably Obama, on the grounds of electability.
Well, since everyone is jumping into politics I will jump in as well.
I personally dislike all the Republicans running but I dislike the Democrats more so I am voting for McCain.
@jalapeno dude- According to McCain he opposed the tax cuts because they did not correspond with a drop in spending which is what Republicans should have done. He does not want to roll them back because he views them as a tax raise. This tax cut I believe has helped the economy and rollling them back woud not do anything to help what many believe is an impending recession.
What is wrong with securing the border first? If we stop a flow of millions of illegal immigrants it makes it easier to manage what we already have on the table. He is not playing to his base on this issue but to the American people who overwhelmingly support securing the border first.
The Democrats are playing more to their base then ever before. We cannot afford universal healthcare nor can we afford any of the other welfare programs they purpose. In fact last I check we have a bunch of other bankrupt welfare programs that still need to be reformed and why are we adding more to the table?
My other question is why are we high tailing it out of Iraq in 90 days as Obama promises (which is another false promise) when we are clearly gaining the upper hand. I predict by next November Iraq will be completely indistinguishable from what it was a year ago. My opinion is a rapid withdrawal will kill a lot more Americans and Iraqis then it would save. Whether the war was right or wrong the fact is we are there and we have a responsibility to ensure that we do not leave the region in complete and utter chaos. One thing I like about Obama is his charisma which I agree we do need but he needs to communicate overall policy. If you want any details from Obama you need to go to his website. I would vote for Clinton right now over Obama because he is purposely being vague so no one can criticize him.
http://www.270towin.com/2008_polls/mccain_obama/
According to current polls this is what the election is shaping up to be. Granted there are still 20-30% undecided voters right now but I think it shows another tight race. I also believe it is a lie looking at the polls that Obama is more electable then Clinton. I believe they are equally challenging and if Clinton was smart she would show what states she could carry that Obama cannot. I use to think Obama was more electable but then I started looking at individual states. They both have strengths in different regions. Given current polls a matchup between Obama Vs. McCain in Massachusetts makes it a swing state
I personally dislike all the Republicans running but I dislike the Democrats more so I am voting for McCain.
@jalapeno dude- According to McCain he opposed the tax cuts because they did not correspond with a drop in spending which is what Republicans should have done. He does not want to roll them back because he views them as a tax raise. This tax cut I believe has helped the economy and rollling them back woud not do anything to help what many believe is an impending recession.
What is wrong with securing the border first? If we stop a flow of millions of illegal immigrants it makes it easier to manage what we already have on the table. He is not playing to his base on this issue but to the American people who overwhelmingly support securing the border first.
The Democrats are playing more to their base then ever before. We cannot afford universal healthcare nor can we afford any of the other welfare programs they purpose. In fact last I check we have a bunch of other bankrupt welfare programs that still need to be reformed and why are we adding more to the table?
My other question is why are we high tailing it out of Iraq in 90 days as Obama promises (which is another false promise) when we are clearly gaining the upper hand. I predict by next November Iraq will be completely indistinguishable from what it was a year ago. My opinion is a rapid withdrawal will kill a lot more Americans and Iraqis then it would save. Whether the war was right or wrong the fact is we are there and we have a responsibility to ensure that we do not leave the region in complete and utter chaos. One thing I like about Obama is his charisma which I agree we do need but he needs to communicate overall policy. If you want any details from Obama you need to go to his website. I would vote for Clinton right now over Obama because he is purposely being vague so no one can criticize him.
http://www.270towin.com/2008_polls/mccain_obama/
According to current polls this is what the election is shaping up to be. Granted there are still 20-30% undecided voters right now but I think it shows another tight race. I also believe it is a lie looking at the polls that Obama is more electable then Clinton. I believe they are equally challenging and if Clinton was smart she would show what states she could carry that Obama cannot. I use to think Obama was more electable but then I started looking at individual states. They both have strengths in different regions. Given current polls a matchup between Obama Vs. McCain in Massachusetts makes it a swing state
http://www.270towin.com/2008_polls/mccain_obama/
According to current polls this is what the election is shaping up to be. Granted there are still 20-30% undecided voters right now but I think it shows another tight race. I also believe it is a lie looking at the polls that Obama is more electable then Clinton. I believe they are equally challenging and if Clinton was smart she would show what states she could carry that Obama cannot. I use to think Obama was more electable but then I started looking at individual states. They both have strengths in different regions. Given current polls a matchup between Obama Vs. McCain in Massachusetts makes it a swing state
According to that site, Obama needs 34 electoral votes from Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, Wisconsin, Missouri, Oregon, and New Mexico. That looks pretty good for him.
McCain is popular amongst Hispanics so him and Obama are virtually tied in New Mexico.
McCain has a slight lead over Obama in Florida, Missouri and Ohio.
Obama has a slight lead in Wisconsin, Pennslyvania, and Oregon.
Yes, the Republicans are in for a challenge this race but it is going to be very tight in a lot of the swing states.
