silver 2039
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Now, now Dachs lets not be biased. They did more than suck. They also self-mutilated.
While We Wait: Part 6
- Thread starter sp1023
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Now, now Dachs lets not be biased. They did more than suck. They also self-mutilated.
Oh, I'm sorry, thanks for reminding me, silver.
Yes, the Turks sucked, blew, and did their best to turn their empire into a shadow of itself. If you can save the Ottoman Empire after 1840 and 1850, you cheated.
PoD: Napoleon is born as usual, but penguins abduct him and take him to Constantinople as a boy.
You had no idea what to do in that game. If you had read even the Wikipedia summary, it would have helped you a whole lot.
You had no idea what to do in that game. If you had read even the Wikipedia summary, it would have helped you a whole lot.
QFT.
Hahahahaha. Ah, the Ottomans. Hilarity! You know who didn't suck in the 1840s and 1850s? Britain. They were great. I miss Britain. Why doesn't someone make a NES where Britain is good, instead of mauled (by some amazing twist of fate) by America, or somesuch. Britain needs more respect from you rapscallions.
Das tried that once with NES2 V. IIRC, they had about half the world within five years.
EDIT: Coming to a Supreme Court near you: NES2 v. IIRC
I resent that profiling but also state that it's vaguely possible if you do it right. das has posited such scenarios twice.
das, maniac madman of alternate history, has gotten together a different scenario for a Napoleonic resurrection of either Romaioi or Turks, or even a Bonaparte Russia. Good stuff.
On the contrary, America keeps getting pwned in EQ NESes, leading me to irately empower them in the settings for DaNES I and II. (Well, in DaNES II, they are an interesting mix of awesome and weak.)
The Federated Kingdoms practically started with that, but our good buddy Stormy made them even more unstoppable by 1870, when the NES ended. Ah, good times.
Of the two that he's done, one of them is fragmented yet strong, while the other was overpowered IMO.
silver 2039
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The state of noobishness or non-noobishness has more to do than with grammer. Some people skip the noob stage altogether like Perfectionist who I think is a DL of Symphony BTW. And Thalyi. I don't know if I skipped the noob stage but I don't remember ever being called a noob but that may have been because of my diabolical genocide in my first NES but yeah.
Frankly you need to learn history and stop sucking in NES's.
Goddam that NES. Great Turkmenistan would have totally crushed Persia if not for the FK and I coud have annihlated Sweden as well as Muscovy. But noooooo....Stormbringer just had to intervene at the critical moment before my glourious victory and send it crashing into the sea.
That is utter bollocks. Perfectionist knows stuff about the second half of the first millennium that I can't even come close to equalling, whereas Symphony D. is more of a physics guy. Also the two of them had an epic argument in AFSNES I.
He was lurking for awhile.silver 2039 said:
silver 2039
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I remember that argument. But their play and order styles strike me as largely similar.
I know. I remember him giving everyone advice in ITNES.
Symphony D.
Deity
There were two. He was significantly more knowledgable about Viking culture and I will concede having been bested, but I was victorious in the absolute-vs-relative stats battle. Saying he's me in disguise has about as much basis as das claiming the same about Thlayli in the NES2 V awards.
Background so far:
The Seljuks smashed the Byzantines at the Battle of Manzikert leading to their eventual takeover of Anatolia and the rise of the Ottoman Empire. One of the reasons for their loss was the still unexplained disappearance of Byzantine general Joseph Tarchaneiotes.
But what if Emperor Romanus, the commander at this battle, hadn’t decided to split his army and send Tarchaneiotes off to be massacred by the Seljuks? Had Emperor Romanus marched to Manzikert with his full army and an extra commander at his side, he might have been able to crush the Seljuks, and eventually lead the way for a campaign eastward. The Holy land would be theirs, and the Seljuks would be destroyed, thus never producing an Ottoman Empire…
After the Byzantine victory at Manzikert, the Middle East was recaptured and their rule extended to the borders of Persia. Still this couldn’t last. A brilliant Kurdish commander named Saladin began to beat back the Byzantine armies, eventually recapturing Jerusalem. The Byzantines were forced to call to the Catholic West for help. In 1180, The Pope launched a Crusade to recapture the Holy Land. French, English and German Knights poured into the area to wage war on Saladin’s armies and retake Jerusalem. Many years of war followed, and Saladin won amazing victories over the Crusaders and Byzantines, but in the end, their combined strength was too much. Upon Saladin’s death, a ceasefire was signed that surrendered most of the Middle East to the Arabs, but left Turkey to the Byzantines and Jerusalem to the Crusaders.
Following the Crusades, The Byzantines entered a period of growth and stability. Occasional wars with the Arabs, Crusaders and Hungary to the West were fought, but overall things were peaceful. That is, until the Mongol-Turkic Hordes of a man named Timur came to the footsteps of the empire.
The Empire of Timur came from the Golden Horde. Timur conquered nearly all of the Middle East and Russia and his empire stretched from Kiev to the western portions of China. Still however, the Timurids were never able to conquer the Russian city-state of Novgorod, though since it was nudged between them and Sweden, much greater powers, its status as any sort of threat was very little.
Despite The appearance of the Hordes of Timur, the Byzantines managed to hold their own against them. Timur died of old age in his campaign against the Byzantines, but not before placing his strongest son in charge of the Empire. The Byzantines would have attempted to take advantage of the death of Timur and attack the Timurids, but they were having their own problems with the growing power of Hungary.
Sorry, I've been working on this for a while, since the death of my old NES, but I'm almost done.
The Seljuks smashed the Byzantines at the Battle of Manzikert leading to their eventual takeover of Anatolia and the rise of the Ottoman Empire. One of the reasons for their loss was the still unexplained disappearance of Byzantine general Joseph Tarchaneiotes.
But what if Emperor Romanus, the commander at this battle, hadn’t decided to split his army and send Tarchaneiotes off to be massacred by the Seljuks? Had Emperor Romanus marched to Manzikert with his full army and an extra commander at his side, he might have been able to crush the Seljuks, and eventually lead the way for a campaign eastward. The Holy land would be theirs, and the Seljuks would be destroyed, thus never producing an Ottoman Empire…
After the Byzantine victory at Manzikert, the Middle East was recaptured and their rule extended to the borders of Persia. Still this couldn’t last. A brilliant Kurdish commander named Saladin began to beat back the Byzantine armies, eventually recapturing Jerusalem. The Byzantines were forced to call to the Catholic West for help. In 1180, The Pope launched a Crusade to recapture the Holy Land. French, English and German Knights poured into the area to wage war on Saladin’s armies and retake Jerusalem. Many years of war followed, and Saladin won amazing victories over the Crusaders and Byzantines, but in the end, their combined strength was too much. Upon Saladin’s death, a ceasefire was signed that surrendered most of the Middle East to the Arabs, but left Turkey to the Byzantines and Jerusalem to the Crusaders.
Following the Crusades, The Byzantines entered a period of growth and stability. Occasional wars with the Arabs, Crusaders and Hungary to the West were fought, but overall things were peaceful. That is, until the Mongol-Turkic Hordes of a man named Timur came to the footsteps of the empire.
The Empire of Timur came from the Golden Horde. Timur conquered nearly all of the Middle East and Russia and his empire stretched from Kiev to the western portions of China. Still however, the Timurids were never able to conquer the Russian city-state of Novgorod, though since it was nudged between them and Sweden, much greater powers, its status as any sort of threat was very little.
Despite The appearance of the Hordes of Timur, the Byzantines managed to hold their own against them. Timur died of old age in his campaign against the Byzantines, but not before placing his strongest son in charge of the Empire. The Byzantines would have attempted to take advantage of the death of Timur and attack the Timurids, but they were having their own problems with the growing power of Hungary.
Sorry, I've been working on this for a while, since the death of my old NES, but I'm almost done.
silver 2039
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*Waits for Dachs to rip into bloody shreds*
Wrong thread?
Anyway, so assuming the Romaioi recover Mesopotamia and the Levant - whither Egypt? - I predict them not being able to hold onto those territories, especially Mesopotamia, where they will face religious issues (more so than the Levant, where the remaining monophysites, along with the Druze, may prove helpful allies). Persia will probably be united somewhat earlier as a reaction and I'll be damned if they don't take Mesopotamia back. Assuming some kind of Mongol horde creation (and the steppe tribes were ripe for one last big push anyway in the 13th century), the Romaioi, who now have control of all Anatolia unlike OTL, will actually have to fight against whatever Mongol-type thingy arises. Which won't be fun for them. In the meantime, they'll also be embroiled with Europe, where Hungary and the various Slavic powers will be problematic and will detract from their joyous Eastern romps, and the Italian mercantile cities, which, while not having the same kind of ability to exploit their collapse as they did in OTL, will still have some power and may cause issues as well. Unite that with the lack of impetus to modernize that we find all too often in the later Eastern Roman Empire, and you've got an edifice that may survive to 1500 with roughly the same territory, maybe not. I don't see them hanging onto the Levant, in any case, and definitely not Mesopotamia.
But it's possible for them to survive the 11th century in possession of Anatolia. I myself have attempted to do so by giving Basileios II a functioning heir instead of Konstantinos and the idiotic succession that followed; das has done so by butterfly, following the survival of a Norse empire under our boy Knut.
So the whole 'conspiracy against Romanos' thing, which was the primary reason the Romaioi lost the battle, is ignored? Sure, I can buy that. Romanos might get lucky and Doukas could get killed by accident or something. Or Alp Arslan might actually fight a battle instead of spending most of the day prudently withdrawing. Or something. Who knows.
They get Mesopotamia back after the mismanagement of Zoe and her ilk? I have a moderately hard time believing that, but I suppose it is possible with a lot of luck. But the destruction of the Abbasid Caliphate so early might have interesting jihad repercussions...sp1023 said:
...lolwut? So Salah ad-Din still pops up in this timeline...somehow. And despite Romaioi control over his home territory, he still becomes a Muslim jihadist and pwns some Romaioi noobs. That's a pretty impressive start for somebody who, according to your basic butterflies, shouldn't even exist. I have a bit of an issue with althistorical persons arising long after PoDs. Turtledove: this means you?sp1023 said:
Anyway, so assuming the Romaioi recover Mesopotamia and the Levant - whither Egypt? - I predict them not being able to hold onto those territories, especially Mesopotamia, where they will face religious issues (more so than the Levant, where the remaining monophysites, along with the Druze, may prove helpful allies). Persia will probably be united somewhat earlier as a reaction and I'll be damned if they don't take Mesopotamia back. Assuming some kind of Mongol horde creation (and the steppe tribes were ripe for one last big push anyway in the 13th century), the Romaioi, who now have control of all Anatolia unlike OTL, will actually have to fight against whatever Mongol-type thingy arises. Which won't be fun for them. In the meantime, they'll also be embroiled with Europe, where Hungary and the various Slavic powers will be problematic and will detract from their joyous Eastern romps, and the Italian mercantile cities, which, while not having the same kind of ability to exploit their collapse as they did in OTL, will still have some power and may cause issues as well. Unite that with the lack of impetus to modernize that we find all too often in the later Eastern Roman Empire, and you've got an edifice that may survive to 1500 with roughly the same territory, maybe not. I don't see them hanging onto the Levant, in any case, and definitely not Mesopotamia.
But it's possible for them to survive the 11th century in possession of Anatolia. I myself have attempted to do so by giving Basileios II a functioning heir instead of Konstantinos and the idiotic succession that followed; das has done so by butterfly, following the survival of a Norse empire under our boy Knut.
Ninja Dude
Sorry, I wasn't listening...
I've been wondering, what have sp and Charles done that gives them such a bad reputation? did they do smething bad a while back, or have they just been considered unsuccessful in NESs?
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
They were notorious for spam, incoherency, and immaturity for their first couple months on the forum. The stain will take a while to fully wash away.
Like grape juice. Or human blood.
Like grape juice. Or human blood.
Sheep
Orange Shrooms!
Ah bit like Nuclear Kid aka Warhead.
silver 2039
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Whoa whoa whoa....really? Since when???
Perfectionist
Angel of Verdun
I'm in physics too, actually.
