White Hand for FFPlus

[Valkrionn]

Honestly, I think that would be a bad idea. Mostly because while it would be interesting, it could also lead to civs founding it immediately.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Honestly, I think that would be a bad idea. Mostly because while it would be interesting, it could also lead to civs founding it immediately.

Could always set a level requirement to enter or give it a horrendous leashed guardian.

 

[Valkrionn]

I'd rather set it up as a normal religion, honestly. It'll have a useful mechanic, so I'd prefer it available in all games.

 

[UNIT 666]

White Hand is founded upon completion of the White Hand ritual. Makes it available to both the Illians and the Frozen.

The Frozen are completely blocked from any religion but the White Hand. They are demons from that Vault, and are inherently part of the religion. Nothing to change it.

The Illians, on the other hand, have no overriding reason to be forced into that religion, other than Auric. Hence the amazing idea....

Auric as a unit/trait granter and being forced to follow White Hand until he dies also seems to work. In that way, losing Auric (or rejecting him and deleting the unit) allows for the Illians to explore other options. Lot of work in that to make sure that the Illians still "work" with those changes.

Basically, Auric forces the Illians to follow the White Hand. If he's killed, or you kill him, you are able to adopt other religions... But your traits, and access to Auric Ascended, is lost.

To go with this, we can add a new Illian leader (Probably Raitlor from LENA, I like the art) that has access to all religions, but is blocked from the higher level Illian rituals... Basically, everything past the White Hand. If she founds the Hand, and adopts it, she will be able to produce certain rituals, I think everything up to Draw/Ascension (She can't ascend, but you CAN get Drifa or freeze everything). However, if you produce these rituals you are from that point on locked into the White Hand religion.

Could even possibly allow for a leader switch to Raitlor if Auric dies... I think that would make people too willing to loose him though.

​

So... Thoughts? Opinions? I'm quite fond of the idea.


Now that I have this idea... It's very possible this religion will be in game soon.

This all sounds great. I look forward to it. With these changes, I think the Illians will become my favourite civ, dethroning the Archos.

A few questions, though:

• Does this mean that the Illians will start with... a Great Commander, or whatever, that's Auric Ulvin?
• If they do, what happens if that unit is the first to visit Letum Frigus?
  • Does he gain Combat 1?
• Do the rituals make him stronger and stronger until he finally ascends?
  • How do these changes affect Ascended Auric?
• Will Auric be immune to certain promotions, like Mutate, instant death stuff, Rage (or whatever it's called), as well as the effects of the Apocalypse (living unit death)?

 

[Valkrionn]

This all sounds great. I look forward to it. With these changes, I think the Illians will become my favourite civ, dethroning the Archos.

A few questions, though:

• Does this mean that the Illians will start with... a Great Commander, or whatever, that's Auric Ulvin?
• If they do, what happens if that unit is the first to visit Letum Frigus?
  • Does he gain Combat 1?
• Do the rituals make him stronger and stronger until he finally ascends?
  • How do these changes affect Ascended Auric?
• Will Auric be immune to certain promotions, like Mutate, instant death stuff, Rage (or whatever it's called), as well as the effects of the Apocalypse (living unit death)?

I think I'm going to go with Magister's approach here. There's already an Auric unit. I can let them start with him, even make him a commander (fits, I think). On Ascension, he becomes Auric Ascended... Passing on any promotions he has. So while AA still can't get promotions, he can maintain those that he had before ascension.

I don't really think he'd be immune to anything. Would probably only spawn him for the Human player, or maybe if AI have him stay in the city.. Don't want the AI losing him.

 

[Valkrionn]

Okay, the White Hand is now fully implemented (Barring art and music, get to that later). Going to describe the changes, and any changes to the Illians, in this post. This should be everything... If I miss something, I apologize.

1. Founding
   • The religion may be founded by anyone who researches the 'White Hand' technology, available after Priesthood. This tech works just like other religious techs, unlocking the units/temple.
   • The Illians/Frozen may found the religion with the White Hand ritual, which is available with Philosophy. This gives them a full two tech head start, but they are still not guaranteed to found it.
2. Units
   • Military
     1. Frostling Archer - Stronger than the normal
        • 3, 4 Defense
        • 1
        • 1 Range
        • 4 Air Attack
        • 1 First Strike
        • 25% Hill, City Defense
        • 20% Defensive Strike Chance
        • 10% Defensive Strike Damage
     2. Frost Giant - Requires Rage.
        • 7 (+3 Cold), 5 Defense (+3 Cold)
        • 1
        • May not enter Desert
        • +20% attack/defense in Snow, +10% in Tundra
        • 15% Bombard rate
        • Starts with Sentry, Immune to Cold, Vulnerable to Fire.
     3. Fiacra - Hero
        • 4 (+2 Cold), 5 Defense (+2 Cold)
        • 3
        • No Defensive Bonuses
        • Starts with Channeling 1, Channeling 2, Flying, Ice 1, Blizzard Caller (Allows calling of blizzards, as with Priests of Winter)
     4. Drifa - Hero
        • Stir from Slumber now only requires Divine Essence, White Hand state religion, and for you to have killed a civ.
   • Religious Units
     1. Disciple of Winter - Standard disciple, starts with Winterborn and Blizzard Caller.
     2. Priest of Winter - Slightly nerfed, lose 1. 3 named variants from the ritual gain an extra strength point on creation.
     3. Highpriest of Winter - Same as current
3. Buildings
   • Temple of the Hand - All python effects removed.
   • Citadel of the Hand (Horrible name, feel free to suggest a better one) - Shrine. Provides Ice Mana, +10% , +10% . Does NOT grant yields for every city with the religion, I decided this was too powerful given which yield the religion grants.
4. Religious Yields/Effects
   • Grants +1 to the city, +2 extra if Holy City.
   • Using Jean Elcard's ClimateSystem, the White Hand will slowly freeze your empire. Religious Climate overwrites Civ Climate, so even Malakim will have to deal with Ice while following this religion.
     • Climate becomes Glacial - New terrain type Glacier. Same appearance as Ice, gains +1 . All civ yields on Ice applied to Glacier (+2 Illian, +1 Doviello/Jotnar).
     • All river glacial tiles gain Crystal Plains - +1, +1
   • Any White Hand civ may complete the Deepening ritual.
5. Illian/Frozen Changes
   • Auric and Taranis gain the Ice Touched trait - Grants no anarchy, contains a help key stating the leader may ONLY adopt the White Hand.
   • If either leader completes Ascension, ALL White Hand civs become vassals. This can lead to a human player being vassalized by an AI - This does NOT cause issues, and the AI seems to handle it quite well (Immediately demanded my Enchantment Mana ). This is a peaceful vassalization, even if you were at war, so it may be revoked after several turns.
   • Auric (Leader) now gains Auric (Unit) on game start, similar to Korrina.
     • 4
     • 1
     • 2 Command Limit
     • Death will remove all traits from the player.
     • Can upgrade with Priesthood to Auric Winter (XML name only, name remains Auric... Feel free to suggest a title)
       • Essentially a Priest of Winter with a command limit.
       • Gains 1 Cold Damage
       • Gains the White Hand religion
       • Gains 2 additional Command Limit, 1 additional Command Range (Total of 3)
       • Starts with Divine, Channeling 1, Channeling 2, Ice 1, Winterborn, Medic 1, Immune to Cold, Blizzard Caller
   • New Illian leader from LENA, Raitlor. She represents Auric's successor after the Scenarios, and is able to adopt any religion. She is unable to complete the Draw or Ascension.
     • Has the Trader trait - +50% , +50% from trade. Starts with 50
     • Emergent

 

[Opera]

Sounds really great! And there's Raitlor <3

But you failed your ":movement:" icons and, for that, you shall be punished with 124 years of emprisonment in my basement with the dreaded Godwynn

 

[Valkrionn]

Hmm... If not for Godwynn that would be interesting, but I refuse to share a basement with him.

 

[Godwynn]

Valkrionn doesn't really mean that. He is just my wing-man. Taking one for the team so Godwynn can live the dream.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Do the Illians need to start with Auric? Let alone one who's effectively a turn-0 axeman with ice spells?

Korinna the Protector, IIRC, starts with only 2 strength, and is bound until Knowledge of the Ether. Auric, on the other hand, has a higher strength than just about any other starting unit bar Lucain, AND seems to start with channeling 1 AND 2, plus some powerful promotions that normally don't come until much later in the game, such as Medic.

Am I misunderstanding that? That's what the Illians would start with on turn 0?

 

[Valkrionn]

Do the Illians need to start with Auric? Let alone one who's effectively a turn-0 axeman with ice spells?

Korinna the Protector, IIRC, starts with only 2 strength, and is bound until Knowledge of the Ether. Auric, on the other hand, has a higher strength than just about any other starting unit bar Lucain, AND seems to start with channeling 1 AND 2, plus some powerful promotions that normally don't come until much later in the game, such as Medic.

Am I misunderstanding that? That's what the Illians would start with on turn 0?

The Illians lost some exclusive rituals (Deepening and Stir), and Auric's death removes ALL of their traits.

My original intention (And will still be in eventually, just didn't get it working in time for the patch and would prefer not to have any more delays) is for Auric to be locked into the White Hand so long as his unit is alive. If Auric is killed, they could use a different religion... Similarly, if Raitlor completes any ritual past White Hand (Deepening or Stir), she becomes locked into the religion. To do this, I need a 'canDoReligion' callback, but it wasn't working when I tried to add it.



All of that aside, I can easily weaken Auric. I just like the mechanic for them. Also, ALL of the promotions/spells you are talking about require an upgrade at Priesthood; Tehy are NOT available at turn 1. Which is why there's an indent in the unit description; Anything after that is the upgrade, not the original Auric.

 

[Riot_Starter]

How about weakening the starting Auric to be more defensive? Like 2/5 or 3/4, so the Illians don't start with an axemen strength unit, especially since he will be gaining XP from his minions. It would put him more inline with a commander who is 0/5. Also, will he have Hero promotion?

 

[Valkrionn]

How about weakening the starting Auric to be more defensive? Like 2/5 or 3/4, so the Illians don't start with an axemen strength unit, especially since he will be gaining XP from his minions. It would put him more inline with a commander who is 0/5. Also, will he have Hero promotion?

I can do that, yes. Makes the upgrade better as well... Not just gaining 1 anymore.

He will NOT have the Hero promotion. Any upgrades he gets, he earns. And yes, it IS worth the effort; He becomes Auric Ascended after the ritual is completed. AA is still unable to gain promotions, but he CAN keep those he gets as Auric....

 

[Dean_the_Young]

All of that aside, I can easily weaken Auric. I just like the mechanic for them. Also, ALL of the promotions/spells you are talking about require an upgrade at Priesthood; Tehy are NOT available at turn 1. Which is why there's an indent in the unit description; Anything after that is the upgrade, not the original Auric.

Alright. I wasn't sure where the upgrade came in, and what it would consist of, since those looked like base stats.

I can do that, yes. Makes the upgrade better as well... Not just gaining 1 anymore.

He will NOT have the Hero promotion. Any upgrades he gets, he earns. And yes, it IS worth the effort; He becomes Auric Ascended after the ritual is completed. AA is still unable to gain promotions, but he CAN keep those he gets as Auric....

This I can perfectly get behind. Maybe even a 2/4, or 2/3: most of his XP, I would think, should come from his command units/natural XP growth, not his own abilities, and any real combat effectiveness deserves to come with the upgrade.


Will he be a Disciple unit-class unit? With all the pluses/minuses involved?

 

[Valkrionn]

Alright. I wasn't sure where the upgrade came in, and what it would consist of, since those looked like base stats.

This I can perfectly get behind. Maybe even a 2/4, or 2/3: most of his XP, I would think, should come from his command units/natural XP growth, not his own abilities, and any real combat effectiveness deserves to come with the upgrade.


Will he be a Disciple unit-class unit? With all the pluses/minuses involved?

I think that's what I'm going to do, yes. Setting him up as a weak attacker/strong defender early on seems like a good thing to me.

I originally intended for the upgrade to be a Disciple unit (Starts as melee), but decided to focus on his Commander abilities... He is Commander unitclass, allowing him to gain promotions which benefit his followers (Or himself).

 

[smithroadtrip]

[*]Citadel of the Hand (Horrible name, feel free to suggest a better one) - Shrine. Provides Ice Mana, +10% , +10% . Does NOT grant yields for every city with the religion, I decided this was too powerful given which yield the religion grants.

I have some name suggestions.

The Frozen Throne
The Ice Palace
The Heart of Winter

 

[Dietas]

ooh, include Utgard as a Unique improvement! It was the fort occupied by Drifa during the age of ice.

Other AoI wonders: Codex Edda, Hermetic Sanctuary, The Great Stag Hide, Trophy Halls.

 

[Deon]

For the current Citadel of the Hand: call it Frostcrag.

I've got some quick horsehockey model if you don't have any yet:

Spoiler :

(where you see white cubes there're blue beams of light like from the top of the Frozen palace).

Give it +1% +1% for each city with the white hand.

 

[Valkrionn]

For the current Citadel of the Hand: call it Frostcrag.

I've got some quick horsehockey model if you don't have any yet:

(where you see white cubes there're blue beams of light like from the top of the Frozen palace).

Give it +1% +1% for each city with the white hand.

Awesome, we can use that. Currently it's the same as the Temple of the Hand. The name Frostcrag works as well.

For the yields... That's not possible atm. And to add it requires messing with all the other building yield functions (Trust me, I have tried. ), which I REALLY don't want to mess with. Could have some side effects I'm not aware of.