White Hand

Valkrionn

The Hamster King
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Looking for some background on the White Hand. What would it's shrine be called? What units would the religion have? (I've gone with a Frostling Archer, a Frost Giant, and Fiacra as the hero... Stir from Slumber can be built by anyone following the religion (Assuming they've killed a civ) to serve as the second hero.)


This is the background I'm using:

Spoiler Paradise :
Everything was destroyed. Johnathon's home city had been turned to ash by a single, terrible man who dressed as a king and warped minds with words. His family was dead. The Bannor empire was crumbling, and he knew it. The Hell they had escaped those many years ago had come for them, and this time, it was succeeding. But Johnathon had escaped, and fled to seek the single glimmer of hope that shined in the black night of the living hell Erebus had become.

He and a ragged band of survivors were seeking something that was only spoken of in whispers and rumors: the Paradise. A land untouched by Hell, if only they could slip unnoticed through Balseraph territory. It was probably a rumor, a fool's dream, if not an outright trap. But what else was there? Foolish dreams, at least, were better than despair. Those who died did so believing that their children, brethren, or friends might make it to Paradise instead.

Nobody prayed. Junil had failed. Lugus had forsaken them. Kilmorph gave nothing. Some had even turned in desperation to the Overlords, but they had also given up Erebus to the might of Agares. But it was said that even Agares himself could not touch Paradise.

To pass the time, the survivors swapped stories of woe; there were no other kinds. An elderly man, among the oldest of the group but still relatively healthy, said, “I hear the Doviello fell. Utterly destroyed. Never thought I'd be so sad to hear that news.” There were nods of agreement; the beastmen had been as fierce and unforgiving as animals, but at least they were better than the Infernals.

There was a time of silence, then another piped in. “They say there's a fourth horseman. It's only a guess... something has been leaving a trail of devastation worse than the other three. No prisoners, no survivors, villages just... disappear.” Things were getting worse and worse.

Said yet another, “can't be any nastier than the third. Disease and death followed him everywhere... I've only heard, people who actually see him tend to die horrible deaths from the diseases... provided he doesn't kill them first.”

A younger man put in what he'd heard: “they say the first horseman, the King, tried to invade Paradise.” Gasps and murmurs of horror. “But they killed him! Yeah, they killed him and took his crown! Been getting ready to do the same to the other two... three now, I guess.” Most wanted the tale to be true, but doubted it. Could the Horsemen be slain at all?

Said another, “even if so, what about the Balseraphs? They're near as bad as the Infernals. Think it's all just some grand game, love nothing more than torturing people. Break their souls, make them worship Agares so they can turn them into demons. But not before breaking their bodies and minds... entertainment, they reckon it is. Horrifying. Every Balseraph is just a demon in a human-shaped egg, says I.” Nods of agreement.

They'd encountered Balseraphs before, a few times, and each had been a desperate fight. The survivors couldn't afford to take prisoners or leave any Balseraphs to report their existence, and they dare not be captured alive themselves, so each encounter was a savage struggle to the death. After the first encounter, cannibalism had also become accepted policy; they couldn't afford to waste food or leave bodies.

There was a change in the plains of ash ahead. The eldest of the group smiled from ear to ear. “Come on!” he yelled as he ran, with suprising speed, towards what seemed to be another ashen plain. The rest of the group, inspired if somewhat confused, tried to keep pace.

When the old man reached the change in ash, he scooped the new stuff up. Except it wasn't ash. It was a strange, pure white powder, which the old man clumped into a ball and, grinning like a child, threw at Johnathon. It was cold, and upon touching Johnathon, began to turn into water. “Snow!” the old man yelled. “It's snow! It's been too long since I've seen snow!” He laughed and danced. “This is it! We've made it! The Illian Empire! Hell has no power here! Paradise!”

The air grew cold surprisingly fast as the group dragged itself towards the promised land. A rabbit, white as the snow around it, examined them. It was the first non-demonic animal they had seen for months, sometimes years. The youngest Bannor stared, half expecting it to bare razor sharp teeth, spit fire at them, or roar. But it seemed as frightened of them as they were of it.

A hunter, previously invisible, swathed in furs, appeared and speared the creature. He grabbed his catch, then noticed the ragged band approaching. “More refugees? By Auric... luckily for you, I've been told we need all the hands we can get, but first things first. Listen up, and listen well. I am to have you take the Oath.” The group stopped, and listened. “Do you agree to abandon your old gods?” The survivors nodded. One said, “they abandoned us first!” “So they did,” said the hunter. “Do you agree to serve Auric, in this world and the next?” Again, they gave their consent. “Do you agree to abide by the laws and customs of the Illian people?” And again, they agreed. “Then I welcome you...” the hunter couldn't even finish his sentence before the group cheered.
 
Considering the fact that Mulcarn is dead, a religion based on the White Hand doesn't make any sense as it would be powerless.

Nice story though.
 
Considering the fact that Mulcarn is dead, a religion based on the White Hand doesn't make any sense as it would be powerless.

Nice story though.

I don't believe it would be powerless; If so, where do the divine magics of the Priests of Winter come from for the Illians? Mulcarn himself may be dead, but the precept remains.

Whether it's arcane of divine in nature is unimportant; It DOES exist, the people could see it, and it's usually very easy to get people to return to the evil they know as opposed to that they do not (Ice vs Hell, in this case). I think it's a perfectly valid religion.
 
I'm not sure what the shrine should be called. During the Age of Ice, its most holy site was probably Mulcarn's palace atop Mount Mulyr, which was raised with him from his hell into Erebus. Since his death it has collapsed into what Auric Ulvin later found and named Letum Frigus. (That is Latin for "Cold Ruin," but Frigus is not an adjective and Letum is the state of death or destruction than the remnants of a destroyed building. The two words may be in apposition, equating coldness to destruction. As Patrian often seems to be Latin that was declined poorly or simply taken from a Latin dictionary by someone who does not really know how to use one, Kael perhaps meant it to be Letum Figoris, "The Death of Coldness," meaning where Mulcarn died rather than a cold place lying in ruin.)

If this is supposed to be a pre-AoI holy shrine, I don't know what to call it. You could follow the pattern of the Empyrean's Dies Diei (Day of Day) and the Council of Esus's Nox Noctis (Night of Night) and call it something like Frigus Frigoris (Cold of Cold) or maybe Hiems Hiemis (Winter of Winter).




The disciples of Mulcarn were known as the Frost Speakers. Their rituals are reminiscent of the Cult of the Octopus Overlords, but they are strictly rational and utilitarian rather than emotional and dreamlike. (It may be worth noting that Danalin was the chief deity worshiped in the small Illian border village where Auric grew up. This was after Mulcarn's death and after Danalin started dreaming, but before the Overlords came to be. The temple however stood there to guard an ancient lake monster and so almost certainly had been there during Mulcarn's reign. It would seem Mulcarn did not really mind the worship of the neutral god Danalin, perhaps because they were both enemies of Bhall.)

Spoiler AoI civilopedia, Disciple of Mulcarn entry :
The Frost Speakers, disciples of Mulcarn, were tolerated by most nations in the Age of Magic. They would pledge allegiance to no sovereign, but they did not speak sedition, either. Well beyond stoic in their demeanor, followers of Winter lost passion of all sorts. Initiation to this order involved bathing in icy waters overnight. Those who survived the 'baptism' usually had their outlook changed dramatically by it, without need of theological debate.

These cold men now lead the armies of their god. Slow to adapt to their enemies' tactics, their strength lies in unflinching rationality, carrying out their plans unhindered by fear, ambition, or personal attachment. They will patch up wounded soldiers with divine aid of their god-king, but evidence suggests their compassion is something to be desired. More than once Amurite recon patrols have found badly wounded Illian warriors buried in the snow--occasionally still breathing.



Fiacra is but one of the Aquilan, great eagles that are widely believed to chase blizzards but in fact create them wherever they go. She may be the greatest of them, but she is not unique.



The area around Letum Frigus is populated by the Hollow Men, ghosts of long dead ancient warriors loyal to Mulcarn who cling to the notion that their god will return. They are not ready to accept that they are dead, and will not move on to either the Underworld or to Hell. They may view the mountain as the afterlife they were promised, but they are too afraid to enter the corridors of the ruined palace. The undead souls have long stopped anyone from approaching that holy ground, but when Auric emerged from the sacred ground they swore fealty to him. They appear thin, pale, and nearly invisible in the snow. They are not brave or strong enough to challenge the mighty but like to rob the last bit of warmth from those lost in the wastes. They might make a good weak and early religious warrior. I can definitely see them upgrading to Eidola.


I could imagine the greatest warriors of the Hand being Nive Riders. Now, there is no reason to believe that the Nive are actually ever ridden, but I like the idea of seeing great champions mounted on these large grey-furred beasts. I tend to think of them as giant wolves are bears usually so covered in snow as to blend in with the terrain.


I could see white hand units summoning swarms of Kocrachon, the biting locusts from the marshes low in Mulcarn's hell. These are weak, but can sap the strength from the mighty until they cannot support their own weight. They lay eggs in victims which eventually hatch into a new swarm of Kocrachon that kill the living victims as they burst out of their flesh. I could see this working my passing on a promotion which slowly decays into promotions that make the unit weaker and slower until it finally kills them and spreads to other units nearby. (I'm not sure if you'd want to actually use a unit too or just promotions) You'd probably want to let priests and Grigori Medics remove the promotions like they can disease or else it could be ridiculously overpowered.
 
I'd assume the shrine would be new, honestly... Not sure how long the original would have lasted after Mulcarn's death, not with so many people hating him.

Fiacra is far from unique; She is in fact WEAKER than the others in game, as they are used by the Frozen for their chariot UUs. Nives and Kochrachons are also in. ;)

I tried to pick units that wouldn't step on the toes of either the Illians or Frozen too much. ;)
 
Just a thought about the shrine. For coming up with a shrine you might consider what the other shrines are. Tablets of Bambur, Necronomicon, and Code of Junil are all written works, there's Song of Autumn, and Stigmata of the Unborn is probably considered an art form by Veil followers. I'm not sure what Deis Dei and Nox Noctis are supposed to be. Structures maybe, given that they have their powers of hiding and revealing. Point is they embody the aesthetic of the religion in both totem and mana.

Taranis the Unchanging as he appears in AoI is probably what the Hand shrine would be, at least aesthetically. Don't know what the actual object would be. Sucellus's heart would be a good one, as it's a trophy of Mulcarn's defeat of life, but that was apparently reclaimed.
 
Actually, the Aquilan are the Knight UU for the Frozen. The Kocrachon are the Chariot UU, and Nive are Ranger UUs.

All my Frozen unique units came from the Bestiary, except for the Ice Golems.

Nive Riders might work, but you might want to make the Nive look different from Polar Bears if you do that.

Hollow Men might also work, since they're the one thing I didn't steal from the Bestiary.

Kocrachon work by passing a promotion called "Nested" to units in combat. After a few turns, Nested will any unit it is on, and then the Frozen (or the Barbarians) will get a few weaker Kocrachon that are temporary- "Young" Kocrachon. So you could summon a Kocrachon, I guess.
 
A good unique wonder/improvement would be Utgard, the fortress occupied by Drifa during the Age of Ice. Other unique things include the giant dungeon from the time called the 'Chancel' and the tropical island.
 
In the game they just use Ice spells of Arcane magic.
Arrrgh.... First and foremost, what that "Arcane Magic" stuff means? Literally "hidden, known by few" magic? Which had been historically applied to the magic having as its source a certain fallen angel which places it into the category of 'divine'?
In order to cast an "Ice magic" spell on a scale of massed snowfalls over a large territory there must be either access to the elemental plane of ice or transmuted power from a node or a worshippers as i am not aware of existance of pure ice nodes - even in FfH2 they are get manipulated by adepts before becoming 'ice' - OR to a powerful godlike being possessing a vast reserves of 'icy' essence. As i can see it, those White Hand priests just used the mindless remnants of Mulcarn as their power source.

All that was said is based upon my personal comprehension of the public (not arcane) sources, FR and MoM mostly.
 
Arrrgh.... First and foremost, what that "Arcane Magic" stuff means? Literally "hidden, known by few" magic? Which had been historically applied to the magic having as its source a certain fallen angel which places it into the category of 'divine'?
In order to cast an "Ice magic" spell on a scale of massed snowfalls over a large territory there must be either access to the elemental plane of ice or transmuted power from a node or a worshippers as i am not aware of existance of pure ice nodes - even in FfH2 they are get manipulated by adepts before becoming 'ice' - OR to a powerful godlike being possessing a vast reserves of 'icy' essence. As i can see it, those White Hand priests just used the mindless remnants of Mulcarn as their power source.

Arcane magic is used by mages manipulating the power of magic. Although this is taught to them by the Goddess Ceridwen, mages do not need her do perform magic. This magic is channeled by the user's divine spark. It is technically known by few because the mage guilds are very selective.

Divine magic is the power of the Gods. Priests can pray to the gods who may aid them with magic but priests can't do magics without the gods.

The gods are the most powerful beings that were ever created. (They are actually the angels of The One). They alone can access the infinite elemental plains and have nearly limitless power.
 
They alone can access the infinite elemental plains and have nearly limitless power.

Aren't even the Gods forced to use power of their sphere drained from the Gems of Creation? They are most powerful creatures in Erebus, but they don't have they own power of Creation anymore, because The One took it from them.

EDIT: Hmm, if so, it create one question - what happened to corrupted spheres gems? Is there still Gem of Hope or now it is Gem of Despair (if Gem of Hope ever exist of course)?
 
All gods but Dagda had created their own worlds of just their own element before creating Erebus, as well as some worlds where 2 or 3 gods worked together. The gods can drain these worlds of power if they need to.


Their divine sparks are quite powerful and they wrote the laws of physics and so know them well enough to bend the rules greatly. However, since loosing the power of ex nihilo creation no change they make can last forever.

Also, the gods hold within themselves deep wells of power. This power is not infinite and can be depleted if not recharged from the infinite wells, but is still great. In fact, Arawn cut himself off from Erebus because mortals had been channeling life and death magic directly from him and there was nothing else he could do to stop that.


Agares stole the gems, but made their power available to all the gods. Not even Junil or Sirona refrained from using the power he gave them, no matter how much they chastised him for his actions.


I'd say the elements are still the same, but changes in the personality of the avatar of a precept causes them to behave differently. Access to gems of creation of a now evil sphere would not give one a source of an undefiled power. Kael has stated that the good forms of the evil precepts are lost to the world. However, I tend to think that all evil spheres can still be used in their original form by someone with enough strength of will and purity of heart, although it is extremely difficult not to succumb to the temptation of the dark side of each corrupt sphere
 
Kael has stated that the good forms of the evil precepts are lost to the world. However, I tend to think that all evil spheres can still be used in their original form by someone with enough strength of will and purity of heart, although it is extremely difficult not to succumb to the temptation of the dark side of each corrupt sphere
Again, good ol' beardy Jordan. "The male half of the Source" is "tainted by the Dark One" and male source users have to draw a pure saidin along (and thru) all that corruption. Which shorts the lifespan, and causes rot and madness along with some discomfort.
"Good forms are lost" imo just mean that corresponding gods are unwilling (or due to their 'deaths' unable) to do good stuff from it no more and there hardly anyone who's able doing it for them - even accessing spheres of power. Requires godly skills, u'know... Though Auric - he might be able...
 
Also, the gods hold within themselves deep wells of power. This power is not infinite and can be depleted if not recharged from the infinite wells, but is still great. In fact, Arawn cut himself off from Erebus because mortals had been channeling life and death magic directly from him and there was nothing else he could do to stop that.
AHAHAHA:lol: another mighty (and foolhardy, as the gods concerned) ROFLZ:goodjob::
before this shocking revelation i was in dark of why all those who abuse magic power are get along with it just fine? A god unable to withstand an onslaught of gnat-like [humans]mortals... That's an epic... also explains why it's scarce now...


Yes, yes... and where the One Creator got his power? A dazzling HUGE infinity beyond our tiny speculations which main point is to get some fun
 
An alternate idea for the Kocrachon. When you convert to The White Hand you get x# of them, then when they 'nest' in someone they die (doing small dam., and x% chance of nesting) and the attacked unit gets a "nested" promo which gradually weakens him (maybe can be resisted/ healed) and dies, which spawns 1-3 Kocrachon units.
Kocrachon die when attacking even if nesting was not succesfull.
If your original Kocrachon die before nesting units you loose the ability to have Kocrachon until you have advanced enough to summon(weakend) Kocrachon, and start the cycle over again.
 
Why not call it the Temple of Auric? Since this is the age of rebirth the White Hand follows Auric in his quest for ascension not Mulcurn. It seems like the most holy place for a Follower of the White Hand would be where Auric's seat of power. A temple where he is worshiped and rules from. The center of his power.
 
What exactly are the values of a Disciple of winter anyway? Are you supposed to be stoic, creepy, and unchanging at all times and worship Mulcarn by spreading ice everywhere?
 
Fiacra is far from unique; She is in fact WEAKER than the others in game, as they are used by the Frozen for their chariot UUs. Nives and Kochrachons are also in.

Valkrionn,

Are these three the names of the High Priests of Winter??

If they are not can you direct me to where I can find them?

Thanks
 
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