White knuckle driving

[Rhymes]

You apparently park more than you speed...

I had about 16 parking tickets! and one for speeding.
Parking in Montreal is just insane, their might be 5 different signs for a single parking spot. It's a racket.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

You have a good point there. However, I still think this is a close call between the two views. Sure the stopping distance is greater at higher speeds, that's a given. But I'm not so sure it reduces our x value as much as you claim. What about the speed of the flow of traffic that contains those stopping distances? I'm not able to calculate the relative merits, but if someone can, I'd be interested to see the results and will gladly take a public flogging over the matter if I'm wrong.

As for deaths and accidents, sure they equal costs. But I take the view that these are more likely to happen when people block up lanes at inappropriate speeds.

The traffic law in Germany and Austria says that below (0.5*speed in km/h) m safety distance you are committing a punishible offense - meaning the distance increases linear in m with velocity or stays constant in time. The way you would need to stop in distance is reactiontime*velocity + velocity^2/(2*acceleration) - which means the time you need to stop is reaction time + a linear increasing term.
The most dangerous situations, and here I agree with you, are when cars with large differences in speed are on the track. In my experience that happens when I am in second lane and trucks or rather slow cars change lanes right in front of me to overtake trucks.

Edited for correcting formulars

 

[Rambuchan]

Mr. Blonde: Thanks for the formulae, but that's not what I am talking about here.

I am slamming those who block up the passing lane, because they waste the capacity of the road. Stopping distance is only one factor in working out if this is true or not.

I contend that these drivers reduce the volume of cars that get through a given road section in a given time because they slow everyone else down, instead of using the appropriate lane for their speed. Let's try and work it out, but I'll need some help, because I'm crap at this kind of thing (was bunking maths classes for the sake of a gf, yes women are evil ).

The factors I think you'd need to input to work out whether this is really the case are as follows (please correct me if I'm wrong):

A = a predefined distance of road space. Let's say "A = 100km".
B = average speeds of cars on "A"
X = number of cars passing through "A" in "Y".
Y = a predefined space of time. Let's say "Y = 1 hour".
Z = the stopping distances relating to "B" (your formulae go here I think, Mr Blonde?)

Can any clever clogs with the time, talent and inclination give us the value of "X" in two cases?

Case 1: Where "B" = 50 km/h
Case 2: Where "B" = 100 km/h

 

[TheDervish]

I consider myself a conservative driver, and I never drive more than 5 miles above the speed limit. I notice that occasionally some people get impatient when behind, but tough. If they want to jeopardize getting points on their license, paying more for insurance in one of the highest auto insurance premium states in the USA, just go ahead and pass me.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Mr. Blonde: Thanks for the formulae, but that's not what I am talking about here.

I am slamming those who block up the passing lane, because they waste the capacity of the road. Stopping distance is only one factor in working out if this is true or not.

I contend that these drivers reduce the volume of cars that get through a given road section in a given time because they slow everyone else down, instead of using the appropriate lane for their speed. Let's try and work it out, but I'll need some help, because I'm crap at this kind of thing (was bunking maths classes for the sake of a gf, yes women are evil ).

The factors I think you'd need to input to work out whether this is really the case are as follows (please correct me if I'm wrong):

A = a predefined distance of road space. Let's say "A = 100km".
B = average speeds of cars on "A"
X = number of cars passing through "A" in "Y".
Y = a predefined space of time. Let's say "Y = 1 hour".
Z = the stopping distances relating to "B" (your formulae go here I think, Mr Blonde?)

Can any clever clogs with the time, talent and inclination give us the value of "X" in two cases?

Case 1: Where "B" = 50 km/h
Case 2: Where "B" = 100 km/h

Let´s try:
Case1: 100km road, 50km/h speed (=13.9 m/s), cars keeping the minimum distance of 25m. This means every 25m/13.9(m/s) = 1.8 sec a car passes or 2000 cars per hour. 4000 cars are present at any time on the track, each individual car takes 2 hours for the track. (or 1700 cars/hour when you take 5m length for cars into account)

Case2: The same with 100 km/h (=27.8 m/s)speed: the minimum distance is 50m, every (50/27.8)= 1.8 sec a car passes or 2000 cars / hour. 2000 cars are present on track, each car takes 1 hour. (1820 with 5m car length taken into account)

Same cars/hour (7.5% less for 50km/h with car length taken into account), the difference is the travelling time for the individual car.

Let´s look at the case when you keep the whole breaking path distance from your frontman. I assume an acceleration of 7 m/s^2 which I found for dry lane and average cars, bikes can achieve 10.

50km/h: the breaking distance is 13.9m + (13.9)^2/(2*7)m = 27.7m. Every (27.7/13.9) sec = 2 sec a car passes the lane, which means 1800 cars/hour. 3600 cars are at the track at any given time. (If you take 5m lenght for a car into account 1530 cars/hour would pass)

100 km/h: 27.8m + 55.2m = 83 m distance, a car passes every 3 sec or 1200 cars/hour. 1200 cars are on the track at any given time. (1140 with 5m lenght taken into account)

You see the cars/time that pass is in this case decreasing with velocity, the advantage is only there for the individual driver. The accident probability, however, rises with increasing speed.

I hope I could help, don´t hestiate to correct me if I´m wrong

Btw, Shouldn´t you have learned this stuff in driving school

 

[Masquerouge]

Well about lanes and passing on the right, in France if all lanes are empty you must drive on the right one. Left lanes are used for passing, and indeed slower cars must stay in the left lanes. And you are not allowed to pass people on the right.
In California, however, you can pretty much do what you please, except for the Carpool lanes. This is one of the most dangerous things that French drivers have to get used to: they will be passed on the right!

 

[IglooDame]

Well about lanes and passing on the right, in France if all lanes are empty you must drive on the right one. Left lanes are used for passing, and indeed slower cars must stay in the left lanes. And you are not allowed to pass people on the right.
In California, however, you can pretty much do what you please, except for the Carpool lanes. This is one of the most dangerous things that French drivers have to get used to: they will be passed on the right!

But if they're used to keeping right, that shouldn't happen?

 

[Sparta]

Regardless of formulae, I couldn't agree more with Rambuchan that morons clogging the fast lane are a complete waste of space and time. Half the time, it seems they're doing it for no reason at all and are just completely oblivious. I must admit to cutting off a fair amount of people who do that as well.

I've been driving for about a dozen years. I think I only have three speeding tickets, but they average out to over 20 mph over, and should've been worse. I've got some random other tickets as well, but mostly I've been quite lucky and just have gotten a littany of warnings (~15-20; double digits before college at 18), mostly for speeding.

 

[Masquerouge]

But if they're used to keeping right, that shouldn't happen?

Suppose you have three lanes, and the right and middle ones are pretty busy, but not quite crowded.
A French person will stay in the middle lane,and if needed will pass people using the left lane.

But in the US people will pass using the left or the right lane, depending on which one looks open.
A French driver seeing someone behind him signalling his move on the right lane will assume that person will want to exit the road, and will not expect to be passed.

 

[Rambuchan]

Mr. Blonde: Thanks a lot for that. It looks like I might be up for a public flogging . But I'd like to spend more time looking at those workings than I have right now. And I'd also like a second, independent opinion before I drop my pants for said flogging.

Btw, Shouldn´t you have learned this stuff in driving school

I'm sorry, we get taught how to drive, not how to become road planners!

FYI: I was taught to drive by a chain-smoking, Sicilian man in his 50s, who had an unhealthy view of other humans, especially nubile young ladies and fellow motorists. The venue for such lessons and discussions was the motoring jungle more commonly known as: the streets of North London. His lessons are not for the faint of heart, nor for the compassionate and pious individual!

 

[IglooDame]

Suppose you have three lanes, and the right and middle ones are pretty busy, but not quite crowded.
A French person will stay in the middle lane,and if needed will pass people using the left lane.

But in the US people will pass using the left or the right lane, depending on which one looks open.
A French driver seeing someone behind him signalling his move on the right lane will assume that person will want to exit the road, and will not expect to be passed.

Ah, fair enough, thanks.

 

[Rambuchan]

Ah, fair enough, thanks.

What he fails to mention also is that French drivers are suicidal nut jobs, who presume that everyone else on the road is a mind reader and that shifting lane should always come before using the indicator.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

What he fails to mention also is that French drivers are suicidal nut jobs, who presume that everyone else on the road is a mind reader and that shifting lane should always come before using the indicator.

French cars have indicators?

 

[IglooDame]

French cars have indicators?

Sure - the driver glances to the right or left for turns, and tightly closes his eyes for braking.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

Sure - the driver glances to the right or left for turns, and tightly closes his eyes for braking.

Ahh, in Paris I just looked to see which side of the car had more damage to it and assumed he was turning that way. It's a numbers game, sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

Seeing the Stickshift or manual thread made me think.

What are your driving habits ?

Ill start!

I consider myself a good driver. I have 10 years of experience behind the wheel and I usually drive real safe.

In my morning drive to work i'm mellow I drive at 70 - 80 km/h and I hug the right lane on the freeway, but when I come back from work I drive fast and I tailgate slowpokes in the left lane and I drive around 120 - 130 km/h. I don't zig-zag from lane to lane I don't flash my highbeams lights and I never ever use the horn.
If someone tailgates me I slow down until the guy behind me gets some distance between me and him.
If my kid is in the car I take extra care in my driving and I'm super safe!

Reminder : Montreal is known in Canada as the capital of reckless drivers, Tailgating, people cutting people off and drivers with no courtesy.

So what about you guys?

I've come to be a very aggressive driver, largely due to driving in the New York metro area. I've been driving for about 15 years. On my way to work (or return home), I'll jump from lane to lane to get around traffic for even the slightest advantage. Once I have an opening, I'll accelerate to as high a speed as I think I can, usually around 130 km/h (80 mph), while keeping my eyes open for cops. I'll almost always take the left lane for this, unless I know the road and realize that there'll be some kind of slowdown in that lane later. When there's traffic, I'll get even more aggressive, cutting off other cars and even insinuating my way into other lanes in an obnoxious manner, without yielding to those who are already in the lane. I rarely use my horn, though. Doesn't seem to do any good.

 

[Masquerouge]

What he fails to mention also is that French drivers are suicidal nut jobs, who presume that everyone else on the road is a mind reader and that shifting lane should always come before using the indicator.

Well from my driving experience here Californians are not so found of the indicator either.

The biggest difference is that here drivers are usually laid back and so will not get all excited if someone cuts in front of them with no warning, while in France this would mean war.

EDIT: But yeah, nobody wants to drive in Paris. That's why there's a freakin's subway

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I have been driving about 6 years now. How safe I drive depends greatly on who is in the car with me and what time of day it is. Actually, it has been years since I drove on a daily basis. In my first 6 months I nudged other stopped or parked cars about a dozen times, and I have had 3 accidents enough to cause damage - two of them in the driveway. I have two parking tickets, both within a month, but incredibly no speeding tickets, despite my habit of going 80 mph in one particular 40 mph zone with fines doubled (it was a construction zone).

 

[Raisin Bran]

EDIT: But yeah, nobody wants to drive in Paris. That's why there's a freakin's subway

My parents went to paris last year and my dad rented a car so he could drive. He told me it was a mistake! No road manners whatsoever!

He told me that if anyone wanted to commit suicide they just had to drive a car in the paris "core"

 

[Yeeek]

I don't drive anymore since a car accident a few years back, i go to work on cycle now.