Being a Good Driver

[TheMeInTeam]

What’s everyone’s top speeds?

~ 5mph over speed limit, unless you mean foot speed, in which case the answer is "a lot less than it was 15 years ago". this assumes nobody is in front of me though. i don't like to be in situations where if the person in front of me randomly slams the brakes for no reason (or a good reason their vehicle obstructs me from seeing), there would be nothing i could do.

if you meant what speed my car is actually capable of doing, i don't know. it is possible for it to go over 80 mph. the spedometer goes way over that, but it's not something i mess with. if i were driving on one of those infinite speed limit roads in the midwest with nobody in sight in any direction i could test how fast it would go, but never had occasion for that or desire for it.

that's not the distracting part, it's having a conversation with someone that isn't in the car.

to what extent does the person's presence in the car matter? it seems like any distraction you're referencing comes from concentrating on something other than driving. i see no clear reason why a hands-free phone should possibly lead to a different expected outcome than a hands-free person sitting in the passenger seat. assuming the call is already active and the driver doesn't have to look at the device to place it of course.

there does seem to be some evidence that using the phone in any capacity adds danger. but if i take that as given, it's not clear to me how being "hands free" is worse than talking to or interacting with passengers. rather than saying the phones are safe, i'm wondering if passengers aren't an under-reported risk.

Has anybody done a tally of fatalities related to mobile phone use while driving over the last, I dunno, 10-15 years?

i'm curious too. seeing how people look away for multiple seconds though, it would be very surprised if the death toll weren't heavy. i wonder how it compares to dui related deaths even.

quick online search has estimates all over the place, but generally pretty bad. insurance company has ~400 deaths per year directly traced to phone use, with likely more where it was a factor (30k from distracted driving generally). another way to get estimate is that i'm seeing multiple sources say ~25% of all crashes are from texting while driving. 1 in 147 crashes is fatal apparently. with estimated 1.3m crashes yearly to cell phone use, this places fatalities from it around 9k per year. very rough estimates. but even if this is off by a bit, it's pretty brutal.

 

[Lexicus]

Don't know how I missed this thread originally.

Badly needs a bump in light of the posters recently revealing they drive 90 mph.

Aim high in steering
Keep your eyes moving
Get the big picture
Maintain a safe driving distance
Signal your intentions
Leave yourself an out

Those were the principles I learned, and they've served me for forty years of accident-free driving.

To them must now be added two that weren't thought necessary in my youth:

Don't talk on a cell-phone
Don't drive 90 mph

Oh, and I've added one of my own:

Assume the other guy is on a cell-phone

The old "defensive driving" has had to evolve to "save the other idiot from himself" driving

I drive 90 when road conditons permit it to be done safely. I think driving 25 mph in most of DC (or any city really) is generally far more dangerous than driving 90 on the Jersey turnpike when there's not much traffic.

I think for some of us, who have ADHD, attention works a little differently where if we have something to 'focus' on like a phone conversation or music, it actually helps us pay better attention to the road than if we're just driving along in silence. Silence lets the mind wander.

Similar to when I was a kid and would get in trouble for doodling instead of paying attention and I would try in vain to explain that mindless doodling actually helped me focus on what the teacher was saying.

A few rear-end crashes in my youth have taught me to always leave way more space than I think is safe between myself and any car in front of me.

Others have mentioned driving defensively and creating expectations or not acting unexpectedly. Both good, and turn signals help a lot.

I like to try to look ahead to anticipate traffic flow so I can stay out of other people's way.

I also think most people have a slightly skewed idea of what goes into safe highway driving. Speed is mostly not important: sure, there's a point where you're going so fast you can't control the car, but most people don't ever hit that point (or even come close to it). It's much safer to go 20 above the speed limit to get away from other drivers than to continue to drive for miles and miles at the speed limit in a clump of traffic. Being in the middle of what I call a traffic void, far away from any other cars, is a much better way to avoid accidents than arbitrarily limiting your speed without regard to road conditions.


Edit: oh also, obligatorily, one way to be a good driver is to limit your driving if you can. Take mass transit, ride a bicycle, walk wherever possible.

 

[Hygro]

Best Uber driver I ever had was going 95 among people going 60 on nye. It was a work of art, and not at all the zooming madness you see on the regular. That guy had everything accounted for. It was beautiful.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I think for some of us, who have ADHD, attention works a little differently where if we have something to 'focus' on like a phone conversation or music, it actually helps us pay better attention to the road than if we're just driving along in silence. Silence lets the mind wander.

Similar to when I was a kid and would get in trouble for doodling instead of paying attention and I would try in vain to explain that mindless doodling actually helped me focus on what the teacher was saying.

I'm actually the same way. Probably would have been diagnosed with ADHD if that was a thing in my schoolboy days.

But as that has occurred to me, it actually felt to me as though it squares with my driving principles and how I have used them. I have in mind in particular "keep your eyes moving" (a physical discipline) and "get the big picture" (a mental task). So, in that video that Katzilla posted of the car in front suddenly swerving to the right because it had only just seen a stalled out car in its lane, but now the reaction time is short for you. Well, I feel as though I would have circumvented that by constantly trying to outthink what's supposedly a block to my vision: get a little look to its left when the road swings right, little look around it to its right when the road swings left. Little look through its own windshield whenever circumstances allow that. In other words, its exactly suited to a "I have to keep shifting my attention to something else in order to pay attention at all" mind, it's just that the "something else" is other details of the driving situation.

Talking on a cell phone (and Igloo is correct, it has nothing to do with holding the phone) activates a portion of my mind through which I imagine the physical presence of the person in question. That imagining absolutely shuts down actual attentiveness to my actual situation. I know that it's the imagining because talking to someone in the passenger's seat doesn't have the same effect.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Surely the point is NOT to stay in the vehicle.

Depends on situation. Plenty of stranded motorists get hit outside their vehicle as well. Googling this, there seems to be:

Europe: Get out of vehicle (and then far away/behind barrier).
US: Stay in vehicle (and then follows that statement with...."do not get out of your vehicle to inspect damage or attempt repairs", which may be the most common reasons people exit their vehicles, and puts them at greater risk. They do say "If you must leave your vehicle..." which then follows the same steps Europe does (behind guard rail/far away from vehicle, etc.)

https://www.cars.com/articles/after-breakdown-or-accident-its-best-to-stay-in-your-car-1420663217827/

I've seen arguments that European safer driving stats mean their way is safer. General stats aren't all that helpful, unless it deals with specific situations (people in stalled cars vs. people hit while outside their stalled vehicle). I've seen it argued that because Germany has fewer road fatalities than the US, that means the 'unlimited speed' on the autobahn makes things safer . No, it's because Germany takes better care of their roads, getting a driver's license is much harder to get, tailgating and being in the 'proper lane' for higher speeds are more heavily patrolled for and what makes their roads safer. (and average speed on autobahn is 88 mph, not 140 like some would have you believe, that KM/hour not MPH!)

Being behind a barrier safest place. Leaving your car to get to that barrier puts you temporarily at a higher risk (and many drivers are not going to leave out the passenger side like is recommended), until you get to that safer place. Many US roads don't have a barrier. Barriers are mostly used when their is a steep drop-off, in which case their won't really be a place to stand on the other side of the barrier (like bridges, cliffs, etc.). (not to say there aren't places that do have a barrier without a steep drop-off, where this advice would be useful).

If staying in car, leave seat belt on.

In US, they say "don't leave vehicle to check on car", but at same time they recommend getting out of car to set up flares and reflector signs, etc. (almost never see a motorist use any of those unless it's an 18-wheeler)

Has anybody done a tally of fatalities related to mobile phone use while driving over the last, I dunno, 10-15 years?

At work there was a poster during distracted driving awareness month:
Most important device in last 20 years: Cell phone
Most deadly device in last 20 years: Cell phone

 

[IglooDame]

to what extent does the person's presence in the car matter? it seems like any distraction you're referencing comes from concentrating on something other than driving. i see no clear reason why a hands-free phone should possibly lead to a different expected outcome than a hands-free person sitting in the passenger seat. assuming the call is already active and the driver doesn't have to look at the device to place it of course.

there does seem to be some evidence that using the phone in any capacity adds danger. but if i take that as given, it's not clear to me how being "hands free" is worse than talking to or interacting with passengers. rather than saying the phones are safe, i'm wondering if passengers aren't an under-reported risk.

The difference is, in conditions where the driver should be paying more attention to driving, the passenger is able to see it and can be hopefully be expected to stop distracting the driver during those times. Yes, I'm presuming the passenger is a reasonably mature adult in the front passenger seat, and it's still not ideal.

 

[Farm Boy]

Talking on a cell phone (and Igloo is correct, it has nothing to do with holding the phone) activates a portion of my mind through which I imagine the physical presence of the person in question. That imagining absolutely shuts down actual attentiveness to my actual situation. I know that it's the imagining because talking to someone in the passenger's seat doesn't have the same effect.

Passengers in the car don't distract the way a phone conversation over speaker does, you're right. They're in the same physical space. The pacing and delivery of their speech will match to yours, and yours will be dictated by the ebb and flow of your attention on traffic, which the passenger experiences as well. It's natural to speak with people while attentively working on things.

The pacing is entirely it's own thing when the conversation is taking place in two separate places, so really nowhere in particular at all. It pulls your brain out of the car.

 

[Gori the Grey]

will be dictated by the ebb and flow of your attention on traffic, which the passenger experiences as well

Yeah, that's in the mix as well, and I almost added it to my post. They can see when you need to devote extra attention to your driving, and so they just pause the discussion for a minute while the traffic clears. But the other, as you say, pulls your brain out of the car. It's gotten as though I can feel my mind being in one of those modes: attending to my surroundings / imagining another person. And that they're either/or states of mind.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The difference is, in conditions where the driver should be paying more attention to driving, the passenger is able to see it and can be hopefully be expected to stop distracting the driver during those times. Yes, I'm presuming the passenger is a reasonably mature adult in the front passenger seat, and it's still not ideal.

i think you mean that the passenger is expected to tell the driver to look at the road? i expect this a very low % of the time in practice. maybe for some passengers when a driver is being egregious. it's better than nothing, but i don't think it would predict a massive shift in accident rate.

it is still more likely than the passenger observing something happening on the road, processing that it's an emergency, communicating that to the driver, who then still has time to react to the situation. i think this particular sequence is a pipe dream generally.

Passengers in the car don't distract the way a phone conversation over speaker does, you're right. They're in the same physical space. The pacing and delivery of their speech will match to yours, and yours will be dictated by the ebb and flow of your attention on traffic, which the passenger experiences as well. It's natural to speak with people while attentively working on things.

The pacing is entirely it's own thing when the conversation is taking place in two separate places, so really nowhere in particular at all. It pulls your brain out of the car.

this is a theory, but do observations back it at scale? another quick search suggests that passengers are still pretty bad generally, with children and infants in particular being really distracting (many times normal). per the stuff i looked up earlier, passengers causing distracted driving accidents in addition to phone usage would explain some of the disparity i noticed earlier.

i could buy that there's at least some difference, but i don't think something too nebulous like the "flow of attention to traffic" is going to make much difference. if your "flow of attention" to traffic isn't "constantly without exception" while in conversation, regardless of source, i suspect it predicts more accidents.

edit: whether one should stay in or exit a stranded vehicle strongly depends on circumstances. there are situations where you can legit observe a long enough lull in traffic to move somewhere on foot at no increased risk. there are others where even if you could exit the vehicle safely, you'd still be walking a long time on a relatively narrow strip of pavement with no barrier between yourself and traffic...i can't imagine that's safer than remaining in it with belt on. sometimes there is so much space and/or you can get off a major roadway such that you really can check the vehicle safely. that's a judgment thing.

 

[thetrooper]

What’s everyone’s top speeds?

Max here in Norway is 110 kmph. I’d say that you can push to 130 kmph without getting in trouble. Speeding past this will get you in trouble really fast. In Germany however…

 

[IglooDame]

i think you mean that the passenger is expected to tell the driver to look at the road? i expect this a very low % of the time in practice. maybe for some passengers when a driver is being egregious. it's better than nothing, but i don't think it would predict a massive shift in accident rate.

it is still more likely than the passenger observing something happening on the road, processing that it's an emergency, communicating that to the driver, who then still has time to react to the situation. i think this particular sequence is a pipe dream generally.

Er, no. I mean that traffic gets heavy, or the weather gets nasty, or whatever - just general road conditions requiring more focus. When my exwife and I were driving, we'd frequently point out police when we weren't the ones driving, and occasionally other things to be wary of. And Gori and Farm Boy have brought up a different consideration that I think is possibly even more valid.

All that aside, I think "don't talk on the cellphone when driving" is pretty reasonable guidance, where "don't talk with your passenger" is not realistic.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Listening to radio is 'distracted driving'. Not realistic to expect everyone to not use their radios....changing the channel, sure, that can be distracting (though I memorize where the button is, so I dont need to 'look' with my eyes). Head-banging to the music distracted driving, I dont do that....but just simply listening? Sorry, I am more likely to fall asleep at the wheel if I don't have anything to listen to but the sound of rubber hitting the pavement.

 

[Farm Boy]

TMIT, yes, I think they're also a distraction(you'll note that your employer doesn't really really want you chatting while you're packing boxes). But they're less of a distraction than the screens the driver can access.

 

[Gori the Grey]

BBC Music (the magazine) ran a little blurb some years back saying the two kinds of music that cause the most accidents are classical and rap.

Both of those two genres demand the attention (of their aficionados; some people can just have classical music on as sonic wallpaper)

 

[Lexicus]

BBC Music (the magazine) ran a little blurb some years back saying the two kinds of music that cause the most accidents are classical and rap.

Both of those two genres demand the attention (of their aficionados; some people can just have classical music on as sonic wallpaper)

Tracks with me listening to rap and following the music makes me able to just zone on the road effortlessly

 

[uppi]

What’s everyone’s top speeds?

Something like 160 kmph / 100 mph. For me that was the point when it got stressful, because you are driving faster than most people, but still have to check the rear mirror for even faster cars.

The tires are usually rated for about 105 on a passenger car?

Depends entirely on the tire. In Germany, the tire rating must at least match the top speed on your car (on paper). So if the car is rated for 250 kmph, the tires must be as well.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

^It is the same in the whole EU, and possibly most of the world.

About being a good driver, apart of the obvious ones like leave the damn cellphone alone or don't go at 200 km/h inside the city, after 20 years driving I would give a couple of advices:

First and above all, don't give anything for granted. Consider there is a drunken car driver, a daredevil biker, or a dumb pedestrian hidden in every point around you which you are currently not looking at, a big truck will just appear behind every corner with poor visibility, a kid will run behind a football ball in every pedestrian crossing, etc, and behave in consequence, because sooner or later there will be one indeed and you will need to be ready, in the right place of the road and at the right speed. So maximum attention at any moment and maximum situation awareness, use the mirrors continuously and even quickly turn your head to cover blind angles and always foreseeing the worst case. It may sound stressful but once you get used to it becomes natural. Anyway after a number of scares or even some crash most experinced drivers learn to think like this the hard way.

Try to 'read the minds' of other drivers by carefully observing their way of driving and try to drive in a predictable way yourself and always use intermittents in time, don't do weird unexpected things. For instance don't try to force situations, if you are late to get an exit don't turn abruptly to take it, instead take the next exit. Being in traffic is like being in a river, you must move with the current don't splash around trying to swim against current, be water my friend.
This isn't going to be achieved immediately but after several years and many many kilometers, but once you get 'the feeling' of the traffic you will be much more safe and comfortable driving which will allow you to be more perceptive to any sudden anomaly happening around you (of course don't get too confident either, always keep your eyes wide open)

About driving the car itself, drive with antelation, looking at the distance far ahead from your bumper, think on the next corner not only on the one you are currently taking, if you drive a manual use the gears to brake not only the braking pedal, it will help to stop the car and more importantly to ingress into the corner at the proper speed, look at the condition of the asphalt, be careful with ice, wet or dirty patches, bumps, potholes etc. So many things...

 

[IglooDame]

Listening to radio is 'distracted driving'. Not realistic to expect everyone to not use their radios....changing the channel, sure, that can be distracting (though I memorize where the button is, so I dont need to 'look' with my eyes). Head-banging to the music distracted driving, I dont do that....but just simply listening? Sorry, I am more likely to fall asleep at the wheel if I don't have anything to listen to but the sound of rubber hitting the pavement.

The difference being, listening to radio is not interactive. You're not feeling like you need to formulate a response to someone relatively immediately, and usually with music you're not even processing/parsing what you're listening to. Interactive conversations take a lot more CPU cycles in your brain.

 

[Farm Boy]

Depends entirely on the tire. In Germany, the tire rating must at least match the top speed on your car (on paper). So if the car is rated for 250 kmph, the tires must be as well.

That's in keeping. They'll just govern the engine to match the specified passenger tire. I think it's usually around 100mph. I don't think there is anywhere in the states it's technically legal to drive on the public right of way that fast, even in the middle of nowhere Montana haven't seen a car in 5 miles.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Pet peeve of mine is seeing drivers in movies having conversations with their passengers. (Yes, I know in reality they aren't actually 'driving').

"Dude, you don't maintain eye contact with passengers while behind the wheel! You drove the last half mile while not even looking at the road!!"