Who do you think the leaders in Civ3 should be?

[Discovery One]

I agree that there should be some choice, without having to mess with bic files, so in some cases I have given a couple. Some of these are not PC, but I do feel that they are the most important or famous/infamous leaders of their respective civs:

England - Arthur or Elizabeth I
U.S.A. - George Washington or Thomas Jefferson
Aztec - Motecuzoma Xocoyotzin
Iroquois - Hiawatha
France - Napoleon Bonaparte or Charlemagne
Rome - Augustus Caesar or (for fun) Caligula
Spain - Isabella
Germany - Adolf Hitler
Celt - Boadicca
Zulu - Shaka Zulu
Mongolia - Temujin/Jenghiz Khan
China - Shi Huangti or Mao Zedong
Korea - Yi Se-Jong
Japan - Ieyasu Tokugawa
India - Mohandas Gandhi or Asoka
Carthage - Hannibal Barca
Egypt - Thutmoses III or Ramasses II or Hatshepsut
Persia - Darush or Xerxes
Arabia - Salah al-Din
Ottoman - Ataturk
Babylon - Sargon or Hammurabbi
Greece - Alexander or Pericles or Lykurgos
Vikings - You got me! NOT Erik the Red, though.
Russia - Josef Stalin or Vladimir Lenin

and should they ever include them (Hint, hint!):

Polynesia - Kamehameha
Maya - Hanab Pakal or Itzam Balam
Mali - Mansa Musa
the Netherlands - Again, I have no idea!
Inka - Atahualpa
Ethiopia - Heile Selassie (spelling?)
Crete - Minos
Portugal - Henry the Navigator

 

[Necron]

The Dutch ruler shouldn't be all that hard... heh...

Oh, and both the Dutch and (a) Polynesian Civ should be officialy included in the near future...

 

[bobgote]

hey, i got an idea, why don't they include EVERY civ ever to have existed!!!1 that shouldn't be too hard, or take long to do...

 

[Paalikles]

Turks - Mehmet, Ataturk
Greece - Pericles; though Pericles was a leader in Athens, not the whole of Greece...Alex was used in Civ before
USA - Washington - they did use Lincoln in Civ2
France - Louis & Napoleon used in Civ already - go Joan, but Charlemagne is also a good choice. What about Guillame Le Conquerrant?
Mongols - there could be no other than the great Khan
Indians - don't know much about their history
Chinese - don't know much bout em either
England - Henry V, Elisabeth (was used in Civ2),Victoria anyone?
Germany - Fredrik had his 15 minutes of fame in civ already, Bismark united all of the German states - under Kaiser Wilhelm?
Russia - Czar Peter, Katarina is a good choice, Stalin has been done - what about Lenin?
Spain - Isabella
Egyptians - Cleopatra, Rameses has been in the spotlight
Zulu - Shaka
Atzeks - Montezuma
Iroquois - Crazy Horse sounds good to me
Vikings - Harald made his impression (Northern-England). Who was Gunhild anyway? Norwegians, like myself, will perhaps be provoked if a swedish leader is selected...
Japanese - today's choice is a good one
Babylonians - Hammurabi
Persians - Xerxes is well known (for his treason in my games ) Dareios (?)
Rome - Anyone for Julius? Augustus
Carthage - Hannibal seems to be the reason why Carthage is included in the Civ series

 

[Mad Hab]

I think the leaders should be:

France: Napoleon (responsible for France's Golden Age)
Egyptians: Ramses II (Egypt was only a minor power under Cleopatra)
Zulus: Mzilikazi (even if he was not part of the zulu that fought the europeans)
Russians: Stalin (Russia's Golden Age is the Cold War - it has never been so powerful before or after that period)
Americans: Ronald Reagan (idem - the man paved the way for the Bush clan)
Chinese - can't give a suggestion, but an old emperor would seem more appropriate than Mao

I kind of agree with the others Firaxis picked...

Mad Hab

 

[Mad Hab]

Originally posted by Paalikles
France - Louis & Napoleon used in Civ already - go Joan, but Charlemagne is also a good choice. What about Guillame Le Conquerrant?
Mongols - there could be no other than the great Khan

I don't get it. Some shoud change because they were used before, others shouldn't because there were no replacements? Besides, Joan also was used in Civ II...

Cheers!

Mad Hab

 

[God]

My opinion on the leaders. Ones I don't mention, I don't know enough about:

France: Louis XIV (14th)
Germany: Frederick the Great. Bismarck was not even a leader, just a chancellor, but he did dominate Wilhelm or whoever became the Kaiser then.
Spain: I believe it is Isabella. IMO it should be Phillip 2.
Persia: Darius, because he would be considered to be around the height of the Persians, or Cyrus who conquered alot of what became the Persian empire.
Egypt: Ramses 2.
India: I'm not sure who should be the leader, but definetely not Ghandi. Maybe Akbar, I'm not sure.
Arab: Since the Arab empire was under the Abbasid Caliphe(Spelling???), I guess it will be somebody from that time period. Not sure with the names.
Turks: The 2 main Turkish empires were the Seljuks and Ottomans. It will probably be Suleiman the Great.
Russia: Chatherine is fine, although it could be Peter the Great.

 

[Beloyar]

Some of you people are completely illiterate.
Stalin and Lenin were not leaders of Russia, they destroyed Russia and created a new state, the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union is now gone, after 70 years, and Russia is back again.
Leon Trotsky (son of David Bronstein) was not a Russian hero, he was not even Russian. He struggled for power against Stalin and lost. However, together with Stalin he worked hard to destroy Russia and create a new state in its place.

Russia has plenty of distinguished leaders and heroes who were not butchers of the Russian people:

1. Grand Prince Vladimir - officially converted Russia to Christianity
2. Grand Prince Yaroslav the Wise - Golden Age of ancient Kievan Rus
3. Grand Prince Alexander Nevsky - defeated the Swedes and German knights, made peace with Mongols to save the country
4. Grand Prince Dmitri Donskoi - defeated the Mongols
5. Grand Prince (czar) Ivan III the Great - freed Russia from Mongol tribute, united Russian lands, defeated Lithuania, built Kremlin's cathedrals and palaces
6. Czar Peter the Great - defeated Sweden, build St. Petersburg, built the Russian navy, introduced modernizing reforms
7. Empress Catherine the Great - (already in the game)
8. Marshall Alexander Suvorov - defeated the Turks, the French and the Poles, liberated Italy from the French, wrote books, never lost a single battle
9. Fieldmarshall-general Mikhail Kutuzov - defeated the Turks and the French under Napoleon
10. Emperor Alexander II - freed Russian serfs
    [/list=1]
    I hope this will enlighten some people.

 

[bobgote]

Originally posted by Mad Hab
I think the leaders should be:

Zulus: Mzilikazi (even if he was not part of the zulu that fought the europeans)

Wasn't Mzilikazi the rebel who left the zulu and established his own tribe? the Matabele I think it was? If so, he should hardly be leader for the zulus when he wasn't their leader historically.

And to Beloyar: Russia by any other name would smell as sweet. Same thing. And the reason Stalin is popular is because it was under him that Russia became an empire, not just the one nation. Although he did many bad things, there is a lot of achievement there too.

And let's not confuse communism with trying to destroy a country and create a new state. Communism is the ideal government, unfortunately it is hard to implement due to the inherent corruption of man. Where all is done for the good of the people, not for the good of the minority's pockets...

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by bobgote

Communism is the ideal government, unfortunately it is <impossible> to implement due to the inherent corruption of man.

Then it's not the ideal government.

Democracy. The worst form of government -- except for all the rest.

 

[bobgote]

I haven't seen a good democracy in action either, so I can't really tell. But the idea behind communism is a lot better.

 

[Parsifal]

Originally posted by bobgote
I haven't seen a good democracy in action either, so I can't really tell. But the idea behind communism is a lot better.

Utter nonsense!

Who, pray tell me, won the Cold War?

Well, I'll tell you in case you don't know. It was the great democracies of N.America. By definition, better systems don't lose.

The Commies lost!

 

[bobgote]

Yeh, ok Parsifal, very good. I still don't think the government of the US is a very good example of true democracy. ie the people don't care who gets elected. I mean only half the people vote. What can you say of a country that CHOOSES to have George Dubya Bush as their President?? huh? where's the thought behind that?? can he even spell his own name? Does he ever NOT look incompetant?? and why does he want to keep fighting people??

So There!!

 

[louiethelesbo]

ROME - AL CAPONE OR SOPHIA LOREN
GREECE - JIMMY THE GREEK
USA - CHARLES MANSON OR PAMELA ANDERSON
ZULUS - H. RAPP BROWN OR ANGELA DAVIS
RUSSIA - RASPUTIN OR LA FEMME NIKITA
SCOTLAND - JOHNNIE WALKER (BLUE LABEL)
FRANCE - TRUMAN CAPOTE OR BRIDGETT BARDOT
ARGENTINA - EVITA PERON as played by MADONNA
CANADA - MAGGIE TRUDEAU sans UNDERWEAR
ENGLAND - MICK JAGGER
AUSTRALIA - ELLE MACPHERSON


NOW THESE PEOPLE WERE LEADERS!!

 

[Midnight Rider]

Originally posted by PieceMaker

Genghis Kahn stopped killing because he died. He and his Mongol hoardes were poised to invade Egypt when he died and it was this that effectively stopped their expansion. When they conquered a city, they demanded total capitulation and, if it was not received, they slaughtered every soul in that city (they were not the only ones who practised this, I know). When you kill every person in a city, that means nobody's left to kill -- until the next city. I guess with racial hatred, you designate who you will attempt to exterminate. With Genghis' plan, you basically designate everybody.

Genghis Khan treated his "subjects" fairly well if they didn't resist. If there was resistence, everyone in the city died (which is, by modern standards, a disgraceful way to practice war, but this was the 13th century.)

Interesting, though. We have enemies that would do that to us if they could. It's quite intriguing to consider!

Anyway, they did slaughter whole villages, and pile their skulls high as a message to all who would oppose them. This did cause an almost world-wide fear of them. The fear reached as far west as England, and as east as Japan, and, as said by someone previously, Egypt! Even present day southern China! (Those Mongols never were plentiful. More than half their male population were soldiers! That's pretty incredible militarily if you think about it.

(I'm not evaluating the moral implications of this barbarism, I'm just stating facts. Don't confuse this with support of their actions.)

 

[louiethelesbo]

I always felt we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again

 

[Tweedledum]

Originally posted by louiethelesbo
I always felt we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again

Yeah, but for what? Medical experimentation maybe?

 

[Beloyar]

to bobgote

Originally posted by bobgote

And to Beloyar: Russia by any other name would smell as sweet. Same thing. And the reason Stalin is popular is because it was under him that Russia became an empire, not just the one nation. Although he did many bad things, there is a lot of achievement there too.

Shows how little you know.
Russia was a multinational state from the beginning in the 9th century. Under Peter the Great it officially became an empire. In 1917, the Russian Empire was overthrown. Under Stalin it was the Soviet Union, composed of 15 socialist republics, three of which had voices in the UN.
Stalin is not considered a great leader or hero by the Russians themselves. There are no monuments to him anywhere in Russia.

So do you mind telling me with whom is Stalin so popular?

The leaders I listed before are eternal popular Russian heroes. Stalin's popularity died when he did in 1953. Stalin may be popular with you because you don't know any Russian history beyond that of the Cold War.

 

[louiethelesbo]

Originally posted by Mad Hab
I think the leaders should be:

France: Napoleon (responsible for France's Golden Age)
Egyptians: Ramses II (Egypt was only a minor power under Cleopatra)
Zulus: Mzilikazi (even if he was not part of the zulu that fought the europeans)
Russians: Stalin (Russia's Golden Age is the Cold War - it has never been so powerful before or after that period)
Americans: Ronald Reagan (idem - the man paved the way for the Bush clan)
Chinese - can't give a suggestion, but an old emperor would seem more appropriate than Mao

I kind of agree with the others Firaxis picked...

Mad Hab

Sheer lunacy...Raygun never even knew he was President...thought it was another acting job.

Napoleon was a short frog who destroyed any future France may have had.

Stalin killed more Russians than Hitler...nice choice.

Mzilakazi?..what is that?..does peniclllin cure it? How do I know if I caught it?

 

[bobgote]

Again to beloyar: I'm just coming from a world perspective. As I have said before, it's probably best to hear from each individual culture/nation as to who their greatest leader was, but I became conscious to world politics well after the cold war, and Stalin is who I heard most of. Must admit I don't know much of Russian history tho, maybe we should ask the russians... I don't see a russian address next to your name neither.

Oh yeah, and How about George Dubya Bush as america's leader. He obviously has a *cough* great and illustrious future *cough*. And is it Colin Powell or Colon Powell, they always say colon on the news and I think it sounds kinda funny.