Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down?

Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down?

  • Yes

    Votes: 853 50.7%
  • No

    Votes: 677 40.2%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 152 9.0%

  • Total voters
    1,682
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But did you get the fact that only 1 in 2 agree with you. That's only 50 percent. So the other half obviously disagrees with you. lol

No. 50% agree with him, 40% disagree and 10% are undecided. Not only is your poll completely biased, you deliberately misrepresent the poll results. Do you understand the word balance?

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Someone mentioned that if this poll was done again from this point that because more people have had the time to play the game more, that the numbers would show even more that think the game has been dumb down.

It's interesting to see that more and more people vote for "dumb down"... Have the boards ran out of fanbois or are everybody who likes it still playing the game? ;)

I'll quote from an earlier post of mine:

Many people on this forum are unhappy with the game, clearly. However, it should be noted that:
1. Most people who like the game are playing it rather than posting here;
2. People who don't like the game are more likely to voice their displeasure;
3. Given the level of hatred exhibited in most threads in this forum, many people will have either stopped visiting the forums altogether or be in a more friendly sub-forum (such as Stories & Tales).
4. The thread title is deliberately worded to attract people who are discontented with the game. Many people who are happy with the game will stay clear of yet another we-hate-Civ5 thread.

Given that, despite these factors skewing the result, the majority of people still believe the game is not dumbed down, indicates the unhappiness might not be as widespread as some posters seem to believe. Another poll in six months' time would be much more telling.

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Number don't lie.

Lol. Again, check the word balance. All your poll tells you is that 40% of the people who voted in your poll believe that Civ5 is "dumb down". You cannot claim that it is representative of CivFanatics forum members and it certainly isn't representative of all Civilization players. What's more, even though your position is still in the minority, you speak as though everyone agrees with you and that your opinion is somehow more valid than the (larger group of) people who disagree with you.

If you really think numbers don't lie then check out the following poll: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=385718. Despite the final option in the poll not being added until dozens of people had already voted, the most popular answer is "I like Civ5 how it is." Would you like to put your own spin on that poll's results?
 
I got this yesterday and have only started playing. So far It doesnt seem to improve much if anything from Civ4, just that there are so much less options and features. So it's more accessible and I guess dumbed down. But not only that so much of the little things are kinda cheap too. No wonder movies or animations, crappy narrator, 16 colour minimap ?(!), lousy advisor pictures, clumsy console-ish interface.. but hey the music is alright ;)
 
civ5 seems like a harder game

i could roll over nearly everyone while i was half asleep in civ4

civ5 seems less formulaic

That's apparently what 'dumbed down' means to these yahoos. In civ 4 I could mindlessly spam cities, build whatever buildings I wanted wherever I wanted while pumping out stacks of doom all day long and steamrolling over the rest of the world with little to no worries whatsoever. Took zero planning and very little adjustment aside from moving a slider here and there.

But I can't do any of that in Civ 5 without making decisions and planning ahead. That means its "dumbed down".
 
I could pretty much take your paragragh and apply it fully to civ V ... something like this:
In civ 5 I can mindlessly spam cities, build whatever money buildings I want wherever I want while pumping out blobs of doom all day long and steamrolling over the rest of the world with little to no worries whatsoever. Takes zero planning and very little adjustment aside from hiring some specs here and there.

That means its "improved" and "less formulaic"
Don't be so "formulaic" ;)
 
This just in... less than 50 percent now disagree that Civ 5 has been dumb down. That means the numbers show that possibly more than 50 percent of Civ 5 user agree that the game has been dumb down.
Possibly, yes. Likely? Who knows. Your margin of error is <100%, but that's all you can say. For all you know, this may be the only (currently) 327 people in the world who agree with you. The other 403 may be the only people who disagree. You have no controls whatsoever, so this can be nothing more than a casual survey of forum-users.
 
I'm still puzzled by how bringing back religion will make the game more complex, and how removing the City States will make it more complex.... Could someone please explain this to me, as I'm clearly dumbed-down on this....?
 
Except that you can't apply that paragraph to Civ 5. :crazyeye:
No? Really? What one ? The one that you say don't need to plan ahead in Civ IV? Heavens, have you actually ever played the game in a setting minimally chalenging to you ? :D
 
I haven't asked you what level you played, i asked you if you played in a level challeging to you ... well, should had asked you your real level, the one where you have roughly the same odds of winning than any particular AI in game....

People can get wrong ideas about how hard a game is if they are playing in a level that is sandbox to them. That is why I asked ;)
 
I'm still puzzled by how bringing back religion will make the game more complex, and how removing the City States will make it more complex.... Could someone please explain this to me, as I'm clearly dumbed-down on this....?

Maritime city states allow you to avoid constructing farms at all, making tile improvement even more linear than Civ4's cottage spam (which was linear enough).

Just try a game without any city states. Your empire building will be a lot slower, unless you were already not caring about city states.

Religion would be another layer of gameplay, which always make game complex (for better or worse).
 
As you can see, more than 1 in every 4 players think that Civ 5 has been dumb down.

I could easily say the majority think Civ 5 is not dumbed down then further spew BS and say the rest have no clue and haven't played enough to know. I have 100+ hours in, do you?
 
I haven't asked you what level you played, i asked you if you played in a level challeging to you ... well, should had asked you your real level, the one where you have roughly the same odds of winning than any particular AI in game....

People can get wrong ideas about how hard a game is if they are playing in a level that is sandbox to them. That is why I asked ;)

Oh, well apparently it wasn't challenging to me :)
 
Oh, well apparently it wasn't challenging to me :)

If you'd put it on Emperor, you'd have to think a little. If you still have BTS installed, give it a go and you'll see you'll have to do a little planning. You may even get to understand a couple of basic game mechanics, perhaps?
 
Maritime city states allow you to avoid constructing farms at all, making tile improvement even more linear than Civ4's cottage spam (which was linear enough).

Just try a game without any city states. Your empire building will be a lot slower, unless you were already not caring about city states.

Religion would be another layer of gameplay, which always make game complex (for better or worse).


Not really. Religion completely messed up diplomacy in Civ 4. The implementation was quite tedious if you wanted to spread your own religion. Not to mention the AI got too friendly with each other because they would all end up adopting the same religion whenever they were on the same continent.

I prefer Civ 5's approach. They just need to fix production so that people can actually build units before they are obsolete. That and rework social policies and happiness so that building new cities and growing them isn't too much of a penalty.
 
I'm still puzzled by how bringing back religion will make the game more complex, and how removing the City States will make it more complex.... Could someone please explain this to me, as I'm clearly dumbed-down on this....?
Actually, I would suggest that religions did make the game more complex, but were an example of how increased complexity is not always a good thing. Complexity is good when it adds depth to an experience, but not when it merely serves to complicate it.
 
Well, binary code also contains lots of numbers, but that doesn't mean it's more complex. We are talking about gaming experience here. If you have been a Civ player in the past you will obviously see that dumbing down half of us are talking about.

Sorry KingYosef. Can I call you KY? I agree with you completely. I was just being a smart-ass. Yes the game is dumbed down. And my buying it in it's current Beta format was also dumb.

Shalom.
 
I'm stuck between considered it dumbed down and considering that they simply decided to start from scratch using very little of their old blue prints...

Considering how long it takes to make the game I do feel a little dissapointed
 
My Game Play Experiences Part 1:
Well it is safe to say that Civ 5 is worth the money. With that said, let&#8217;s take a look back at our dear old friend Civ 4 in an effort to explain some of the changes that have been made and to also ask ourselves why these significant changes were made.

1. Civics:
I remember teching the same old path over and over again; bronze for slavery, priesthood to see if I could build Oracle to get a free tech which was usually either monarchy for the happiness bump or code of laws to get to civil service quicker. Bureaucracy is what I call the &#8220;pro&#8217;s&#8221; civic. Most players would move through the tech tree based on resources and other non-relevant needs. The fact of the matter is that the first civ to get to bureaucracy had a pretty significant advantage especially if you coupled it with an academy.

Why did this change?

It got boring. The civics were way too unbalanced. For example; having slavery in the modern era to quickly build nukes was just way to unrealistic (note: all they had to do was make it so that once you abolished slavery you could never go back). Out go the civics in come the social policies. But wouldn&#8217;t you know that the designers would find a way to dumb this down into a silo style engineering methodology. If you want to wonder whore go right ahead we will help you do that. If you want to be a war monger go right ahead we will help you there too. Feel like being a tech junkie? By all means knock yourself out. You want to spam settlers? Just do it. But here is the problem. Most laws and civics along with religious attributes were mostly reactive in nature throughout history, definitely not proactive like this game suggests.

I propose a solution.

If you happen to build a large military early you should be able to unlock military minded policies. If you happen to build a wonder or two maybe this unlocks another policy. The link between culture and policies is unrealistic in my view. Maybe you can gain policy points to improve your chances of unlocking a desired policy; this could be similar to odds of creating a great person in civ 4. A little unpredictability is what makes the game more challenging and fun to play imo.

2. Combat:
I had a discussion with a well known Earth/FFA MP player about combat and we came to the same conclusion; Civ is a war game at the end of the day. The most successful players would slave chop a huge army regardless of score and run wild over the map. Feeding their depleted economy with gold plundered from beaten civs that usually would quit when they saw a stack of doom on their border. The quitting is what I hate the most in MP FFA; please note that I am guilty of it too (can you say ranking system?) I am also going to throw in the inevitable warrior rush component of civ 4. If you have ever hosted an FFA you know as well as I do that there is usually 1 or 2 players that are &#8220;new to the game&#8221; for the sake of time we will call these players noobs or the alternate spelling newbs. A noob would leave there civ unprotected and any savvy player would look at the score and look at the civ to determine if they started with a scout and would proceed to walk their warrior into the civ and take the city. This advantage of having a noob or AI close by is usually insurmountable. Another component of combat had to do with the randomness of who had copper pop in their cap. If I have copper my neighbor was dead in civ 4 most of the time. If I had horses in cap you could bank on 6 chariots on your door step while you were about to settle your second city.

So what changed?

Goodbye warrior rush, we will simply give the noob the ability to defend a city without a unit in it. That levels that playing field. Goodbye random copper, hello everyone has copper how are you doing this fine evening? (Oh, and by the way, iron called and wants to join the party too) this too should help level the playing field. Goodbye slavery but we would still like to hang around your cute friend &#8220;slap chop&#8221; as I would like to call her. Now this really levels the playing field, sort of??? I am talking to you iron. Goodbye stacks of death you are just too falic in nature. (Hey Firaxis, this is one of the reasons guys like to play this game. It makes them feel like they have a bigger penis) This should make the shower after gym class feel less stressful for our good old friend &#8220;the noob&#8221;. With all of that said I like the changes to combat except for the fact that it takes way too long to build units just to lose a catapult to a horseman that is not in view.

I propose a solution.

Allow weak units to have a unit ride shotgun like a great general. This uses up a unit and would increase its ability to defend only. That shot gun unit cannot attack unless it wastes a turn to &#8220;undefend&#8221; so to speak. Please also make it so that F$@#&^g scouts do not impede my war machine. Let&#8217;s have a safe passage agreement that you start with unless the AI or player gets angry and nullifies it. Killing a scout should not start a war.

The unhappiness is a bear to deal with. Happy buildings must be cheaper to buy and build. Firaxis, are you trying to make this game into something other than a war game? Because if I wanted to build an empire I would play the Sims, DO YOU FEEL ME?

Barbs. What can I say? I see them in my sleep. Enough said.

Here is another problem I have noticed. Some Jack hole stretches his settlement to my cultural border and buys up all the valuable tiles. I of course switch on the war machine silo and begin to amass an obvious army. He proceeds to counter with a crap ton of units while others are breezing along chatting it up with B.S. city states and building wonders that should not have an effect on score. Fast forward 30 turns; me and my cold war neighbor are mired in battle while the more passive civs stroll along civ builder&#8217;s yellow brick road. We are war weary and have fallen behind on tech, culture, and more importantly, units. That&#8217;s right; just because I built a crap ton of units doesn&#8217;t mean they all survive. Now my other neighbor notices my lush capital has a archer in it and my army scattered throughout hex land and decides to move 4 swords and a catapult to my cap and it is goodnight sweet Jesus. MAKE TILES CLOSE TO OTHER CIVS WAY TOO EXPENSIVE TO BUY EARLY GAME! Or make it so that the farther you are away from your cap the more expensive they are to buy. Sounds so simple.

Here&#8217;s an idea Seth&#8230;FIX IT!

These are simply some suggestions from a guy that is worse than some and better than others at this game. I know that this is a forum for fans which means I am sure to get an earful of complacent die hards that thinks Firaxis can do no wrong. So with that said let your suggestions be heard. I love Civ 3 & 4, Civ 5 is nice but playing does not have the addictive appeal for some reason and it is too good to play to the extent that it has ruined Civ 4 for me. Does anyone else feel this way?

Part 2 will be released after the first major patch is up and running. I am sure the topics will be about MP and the weak ass AI and those odd ball city states that don&#8217;t add up. (It&#8217;s like Firaxis is making us scout, trade, and be diplomatic. Don&#8217;t tell me what to do Firaxis.)

See you on the battle field friends and foes and may the luckiest player with iron win!

NecroDMI
 
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