Who else is refraining from hanging out in Civ forums?

[SpurnSpore]

I don't want to discuss the game just yet, I don't even have the game !

So instead I sit here and read NEG and POS posts over and over, and getting more confused by the minute.

I bit the bullet,after 5 days of reading both for and against drove 140 kilometers paid AUD $75 to find out.
I was so burned by Spore, I just didn't want to believe (despite the posts) that CIV had degenerated into CIVSPORE.
Nah ,it just couldn't be? Fireaxsis wouldn't wreck a great game?
Well yet to play,got home 6pm, loaded game, it has taken 4 hours (10 pm now) to get steam,and load the game- even with a physical disc! Never in a decade of PC gaming has a game taken that long to load....???
I hope like hell it was all worth it when/if I get to play it!!!

 

[Teperi Blaze]

I feel so sorry for you SpurnSpore, but it will take another 2 years at least...to make the game fantastic, and by the modders, as it seems.

I hang on to it, I did with previous versions and never regretted it.

It's just a feeling, but we will never get fully completed games anymore, just basic stunts and then we buy all DLC's to make it better.

*sigh*

 

[King of Spades]

I can't help replying from time to time to those negative threads. I know that I can't change the opnions of the thread starters because they seem to be immune to discussion and balanced critical thinking.

However, if nobody replies, visitors who come to the forum to see if Civ5 is worth buying could get the impression that it is the worst game ever released.

Same here. But, I've also stopped going into every single complain-thread, and it seems by the view-count on some post that others have stopped doing this too. There are quite a few "0-1-reply threads" out there with 50-130 viewers.

 

[Johan de Witt]

The thing that bothers me most, is that most people think they know that the majority backs them up and the points they make are the only valid points; You're dumb if you don't see it the way they do. Then they throw some sentences like "won 90% of immortal games" and "you prob only win at chieftain!" and then they think it actually helps their "facts" because they are Civ kings.

/facepalm

I like the game but I do not say there are no flaws. Still those flaws are in no way major enough for me or my trust in Firexis patching low enough to stop playing.

 

[Taan]

Well, just take a look at a bugfree finished game, say for instance starcraft 2. The forums were very clean and it took some weeks before the "this and that is op" threads started. Maybe..just maybe you are not the silent majority, but rather a miniority who accepts the flaws and bugs of the game (haven't paid for them?) more than others do?

 

[Ciek]

Civ5 has conquered Civfanatics - 5 turns of revolt?

Then we will have a productive community afterwards yay!

Well put but to put into Civ 5 terms: Civ5 tried to annex CivFanatics instead of making it a puppet state, but it's bogging down it's happiness, Civ5 just needs to build more coliseums to have the disgruntled people kill each other at our amusement!

 

[Saarud]

I usually don't hang out here in the General Discussions. Not because of all the negativity, I think people are free to think and say what they want as long as they don't insult other people, no the reason I usually don't hang out here are because it's much more interesting to hang out in the Creation & Customization where people are far more creative.

 

[Psyringe]

We hear a lot about the "silent majority" of players who are enjoying Civ 5. I've only posted a few things here and there, because basically, I can't stand all the negativity. The complaints that people have seemed either A) unfounded or B) "it's not Civ 4". It's hard to even have an intelligent debate with these people because of their strong bias.
(...)
I am the silent majority and I'm staying silent until it's worth talking about Civ again.

Ouch.

You are participating in the very same thing that you criticize: flinging negativity around. The only difference is that you're aiming at the critics, not the game. The funny thing is that you do it exactly the same way (generalizations, strong claims with no actual evidence presented, disrespectful attitude, strong bias).

If you really wanted to enhance the state of the discussion (as opposed to participating in the flame wars from a somewhat double-standard position of someone who claims that he despises them), you'd participate in the more somber discussions (like this one). Instead you outright claim that these don't exist and that intelligent discussion with critics isn't possible. You're ignoring this evidence to fabricate a justification for your own rant.

I think your post is entirely self-defeating. Your final statement ("I am the silent majority") captures that pretty well. You do realize that the only way how a single person could constitute a majority is if there's nobody else? (Apart from that, claiming that there's a "silent majority" without backing that up with any evidence really is little more than a convenient way to devaluate the entire public opinion wholesale, without a need to actually address any facts or details. That's why politicians use it so often.)

 

[Watiggi]

We hear a lot about the "silent majority" of players who are enjoying Civ 5. I've only posted a few things here and there, because basically, I can't stand all the negativity. The complaints that people have seemed either A) unfounded or B) "it's not Civ 4". It's hard to even have an intelligent debate with these people because of their strong bias. They throw around words like "2k fanboy" (not even realizing the 2k is the publisher, Firaxis is the developer) whenever someone says they are enjoying the game.

If most players are anything like me, they are simply waiting for all the whiners to get bored of ranting and just move on so we can have a laidback, fun community that plays this fun game.

I am the silent majority and I'm staying silent until it's worth talking about Civ again.

Agreed. This forum has turned into a cesspit of whinging and whinning. Will be good once its gone.

 

[rbj2001]

It's just todays human behavour, at least of the younger generation.

Not sure I agree. I'm no longer what you'd call the young generation, and I'm usually pretty positive, but I find myself posting a lot of negativity about this game. There is a reason for this, and it's not just because the haters are going to hate. People are annoyed (to use the polite term) that they've been given these high hopes and paid a lot of money for something that is frankly not a good game. That is the brutal fact. All the people moaning were willing and hoping for game to be great (which is why they bought it right after it came out), and would be posting lots if nice things if it had been great, but have been badly disappointed. You shouldn't be blaming them - blame Firaxis!

I believe it has bugs and flaws just like every other game released in the last 2 year.
I believe we should be thankful and patient that we even get patches, i remember buying games when the internet was nonexistant and what you got was what you got!
I believe they will get most the bugs fixed and what they lack in fixing will be corrected by the huge and talented modding comunity

If you look at any game for the Xbox360 released in the last 2 years, it doesn't have bugs and flaws, because they know most people don't have internet connections to their Xbox and they actually have to do thorough testing before it goes live. I'm not thankful that they cut corners on testing and optimizing before it comes out and only fix them later on.

I am however very disapointed in the lack of management and skill needed. My friend who has never been able to grasp the previous versions of Civ and all its concepts is now an above average player.

Unlikely, DUCY?

 

[stethnorun]

Ouch.

You are participating in the very same thing that you criticize: flinging negativity around. The only difference is that you're aiming at the critics, not the game. The funny thing is that you do it exactly the same way (generalizations, strong claims with no actual evidence presented, disrespectful attitude, strong bias).

If you really wanted to enhance the state of the discussion (as opposed to participating in the flame wars from a somewhat double-standard position of someone who claims that he despises them), you'd participate in the more somber discussions (like this one). Instead you outright claim that these don't exist and that intelligent discussion with critics isn't possible. You're ignoring this evidence to fabricate a justification for your own rant.

I think your post is entirely self-defeating. Your final statement ("I am the silent majority") captures that pretty well. You do realize that the only way how a single person could constitute a majority is if there's nobody else? (Apart from that, claiming that there's a "silent majority" without backing that up with any evidence really is little more than a convenient way to devaluate the entire public opinion wholesale, without a need to actually address any facts or details. That's why politicians use it so often.)

You missed the point of my post, entirely. It's ok, though, most other people seemed to get my point.

 

[Horace]

Well Civ5 was always gonna get a lot of hate because it is so different from Civ4.

Is it justified tho.. personally I didnt want to play exactly the same game as Civ4, but with new graphics and a few extra nobs on. I may as well have just continued with Civ4.

I like the new combat. Clearly tho there are some fairly major problems with the game as it has been released. Rush job.

I think Afforess review was pretty accurate.

Hopefully they pull their finger out and get some patches and the sdk out sharpish. On first impressions i would like to play some mods with increased production/decreased tech but I play multiplayer mostly so cant atm

 

[SuperJay]

I stopped reading much in the General forum, and I had to rein in my own behavior - I was giving the disappointed people way too much flak about their posts and just contributing to the negativity. I stay mostly in the Civ 5 Strategy forum for now.

And FWIW, the people who were disappointed do have legitimate gripes and problems - the AI especially needs some real attention. I still don't agree with some of the hysterical Chicken-Little behavior, but that will die down soon anyway.

 

[Psyringe]

You missed the point of my post, entirely. It's ok, though, most other people seemed to get my point.

Well, your reply actually proves mine. You're interested in participating in the ongoing flame wars, not in any objective discussion about the game and its features (which also exist).

You're also resorting to the same tactics as in your first post, i.e. making strong claims without backing them up with any evidence. Furthermore, even if I hadn't gotten your point - if you were interested in discussion as opposed to flaming, you'd explain that point to someone who missed it instead of a generic cop-out response.

It's okay, though. Debates like this can be fun, I just think one shouldn't start them while at the same time complaining about other people's style for doing the same. I prefer a harsh but honest debate over double standards.

 

[stethnorun]

Well, your reply actually proves mine. You're interested in participating in the ongoing flame wars, not in any objective discussion about the game and its features (which also exist).

You're also resorting to the same tactics as in your first post, i.e. making strong claims without backing them up with any evidence. Furthermore, even if I hadn't gotten your point - if you were interested in discussion as opposed to flaming, you'd explain that point to someone who missed it instead of a generic cop-out response.

It's okay, though. Debates like this can be fun, I just think one shouldn't start them while at the same time complaining about other people's style for doing the same. I prefer a harsh but honest debate over double standards.

Read other people's responses and you may perhaps get the general idea of my topic. Like I said, most others got it, you didn't. You came here looking for a debate, and I am not interested. I have the ability, but not the will.

 

[Iberian]

Well, just take a look at a bugfree finished game, say for instance starcraft 2. The forums were very clean and it took some weeks before the "this and that is op" threads started. Maybe..just maybe you are not the silent majority, but rather a miniority who accepts the flaws and bugs of the game (haven't paid for them?) more than others do?

A couple of points:

1. If people to don't say anything then nothing will change. CiV was not well done. A lot of bugs, a lot of things that don't make sense, AI that can't fight its way out of a paper bag, crashes, no SLI support (applies to me so I am listing it), and the list goes on. The collective thoughts of those who care will be the driving force to shape this game. The silenty majority have no voice, they contribute nothing, and they will get nothing other than what the vocal ask for. Politics is the same way.

2. Starcraft is probably 5-10 times more popular than Civ with as rabid a fan base as any and the level of polish and dedication to making Starcraft II is light years ahead of what CiV was. There isn't a silent majority problem in SC2. There aren't serious bugs that make you wonder how it was possible to ship the game without noticing. There was a massive beta to get that done. CiV was in such an awful state they knew they couldn't release a beta or even a demo to any large number.

3. This game will be good as long as the SDK is good. Not because Firaxis is good. To all of those who spend time calculating the best formulas and wading through XML's to help make this the best game I applaud you. To those who complain or complain about complainers you aren't helping. Well at least those who complain give us somethign to work on.

 

[Skwink]

Alright, see you then!

 

[Frantic Ferret]

You're seeing an example of what happens when you focus enthusiast rage through increasingly narrow venues. For example:

Review in mainstream media: "A great game!"

Review on video game site: "A good game, but with a few blunders."

Review on a site dealing only with that game: "The game is a crime against humanity!"

 

[Psyringe]

Read other people's responses and you may perhaps get the general idea of my topic. Like I said, most others got it, you didn't.

You're evading the question again. I also did read the thread, and I see a pretty mixed response to your post.

Anyway. You started a thread complaining about complainers (which is self-defeating in itself), making strong claims without providing any evidence, and when asked for evidence, claim that the person asking "didn't get your point" and that you're "not interested in a debate". Okay. So you don't want do discuss your claims, you just wanted to vent your dissatisfaction with the opinions currently prevalent in the forum. You're doing the same thing as the people you complain about. While other people vent their dissatisfaction about the game, you vent your dissatisfaction about their opinion, and at the same time complain that an intelligent discussion is barely possible.

As already said, it's a self-defeating position. It's perfectly okay that you like the game (good for you). It's understandable that you don't like constant criticism levied against something you like. I just wanted you to understand that you're doing the same thing as the people you complain about (while harshly criticizing them for their behavior).

 

[Deckhand]

1. I was very disappointed in this discussion thread. From the topic title, I thought it would be for people like me that were avoiding the forum because they wanted to discover things on their own and didn't want their pristine CiV experience spoiled by spoilers. For me, that plan lasted three days.

I bit the bullet,after 5 days of reading both for and against drove 140 kilometers paid AUD $75 to find out.
...
Well yet to play,got home 6pm, loaded game, it has taken 4 hours (10 pm now) to get steam,and load the game- even with a physical disc! Never in a decade of PC gaming has a game taken that long to load....???
I hope like hell it was all worth it when/if I get to play it!!!

2. ^ I felt your pain. I had the same experience. Didn't drive as far or pay as much but otherwise the same. Left it loading overnight and in the morning, everything frozen. And internet wasn't working. I blamed STEAM (still no idea whether internet problem was just a coincidence). In the Late afternoon, internet started working again and could start loading again. Five hours later I could finally play.

3. I am really enjoying the game. Partially because it is new and shiny. I agree with many of the criticisms. In particular, it is too slow on my (new) computer and I fear its lack of strategic depth will not keep me playing for years as cIV has. (oops, I mentioned Civ, maybe you will think I'm one of those that wanted Civ4.5). I also like many of the changes.

4. Civil discussion is good. Discussion of game's positives and negatives is good. Some people are passionate. Some people are funny. Some people whine about whiners.

Spoiler :

oops, there I go, piling on, hypocritically complaining about complainers

5. Impolite flamers should be ignored and I am appreciative of the fast response of the moderators in warning them.