Who is greater: Alexander or Jesus?

[aelf]

By this I mean who has had more impact? Megas Alexandros - Hellenisation, Yeshua Ben Yosef - Christianisation.

Personally, I'd go for the Argead. Hellenisation had a profound impact on Christianity itself and probably led to many of the things credited to Christian influence today.

Vote and discuss

EDIT: In case people don't really get what this thread is looking for:

I think the problem is people tend to credit Christianity with many political and geopolitical developments, when Christianity is not a necessary component at all. When we're talking about the influence of Christianity vs. Hellenism, I think it's more of a cultural-philosophical influence. Of course this has political implications as well, but it might be difficult to distinguish what influences on politics are direct and thus genuine. Certainly, though, while missionaries might have served as pioneering explorers, for example, this did not mean that Christianity spurred colonisation and imperialism. So it's pretty clear that its direct political influence is not as limitless as people seem to think. Coming up with a list of things that is really due to Christianity would be more challenging than it seems.

Yes, it is actually quite specific. When I said "impact" I assumed all the unnecessary connections are not regarded. I didn't really want to say this at first because I wanted to know what people honestly think, right or wrong. But given the number of complaints about the question being too vague, I'm clarifying it now.

 

[Perfection]

Jesus, by far.

 

[Bill3000]

Jesus. Alexander's influence was just the Middle East + Greater Iran. Jesus' influence is 1/3rd of the population of the world, (actually more like 2/3rds since Islam counts as influence) not to mention the entirety of modern philosophy and thus science. The west may be indebted to the Hellenes, but it would have never gone through without the help of Christianity.

 

[scherbchen]

Alexander as long as we are talking about persons that have existed. Jesus gets the vote when we include fictional characters.

 

[Perfection]

Alexander as long as we are talking about persons that have existed. Jesus gets the vote when we include fictional characters.

Why don't you think Jesus existed?

 

[emzie]

Yeah, Alexander had a huge influence over the situations which gave rise to Christianity, but that doesn't mean his influence was greater. To argue that one might as well argue the single most influential human of all time was the one who first left Africa.

 

[Yui108]

Really? All Alexander did was spread Helenik culture further, and everything which he founded eventually crumbled. Christendom is still standing, and the world's largest religion.

 

[Yui108]

Alexander as long as we are talking about persons that have existed. Jesus gets the vote when we include fictional characters.

rofl

 

[aelf]

Jesus. Alexander's influence was just the Middle East + Greater Iran. Jesus' influence is 1/3rd of the population of the world, not to mention the entirety of modern philosophy and thus science. The west may be indebted to the Hellenes, but it would have never gone through without the help of Christianity.

Not really. Hellenisation also had a great impact on Europe (obviously), India and even had some impact on China (eg. Greco-Buddhism). I think Christianity's influence is conflated by imperialism and colonisation, which are not inherently Christian.

And it seems to me that Christianity would be almost entirely mystic if not for Hellenisation.

 

[Perfection]

If Alex didn't Hellenize someone else woulda. Besides the Greek's influence on the world is overrated.

 

[scherbchen]

Why don't you think Jesus existed?

you are right. I should have phrased it better. Jesus might have existed. I was assuming we were talking about the "son of God", "cured lepers", "walked on water" Jesus. hence my reference to a fictional character. sorry.

 

[Shekwan]

I would have voted Alexander because he was more badass, and in the movie everyone in his army had Irish accents which was awesome... But Joe the Plumber was far more inspirational than those other guys so he's getting my vote.

 

[aelf]

If Alex didn't Hellenize someone else woulda. Besides the Greek's influence on the world is overrated.

Who else would have? Greek influence seems to be very profound to me. For one, it extended farther to the East (which mattered more then) than Roman/Christian influence.

Christianity only really made a great impact in the last few centuries or so, which of course appears to skew things in its favour today.

 

[Yui108]

Who else would have? Greek influence seems to be very profound to me. For one, it extended farther to the East (which mattered more then) than Roman influence.

Christianity only really made a great impact in the last few centuries or so, which of course appears to skew things in its favour today.

how did Afghanistan and Iraq matter more than the Near East in the Early Classical Era?

And what? Christianity's influence is on the decline today! If Christianity made no great influence from - 0 A.D. - 1700 A.D. nothing did (try Constantine, Crusades, impetus for Spanish colonization, the salvation of Latin in the monasteries, the solidarity of Europe in the middle ages.. need I go on?)

 

[Shekwan]

But who's to say that the Roman's wouldn't have conquered the Levant anyway, and that Jesus would emerge then; regardless of that Alexander lad's adventures?

Also, this should be in the history forum.

 

[Perfection]

Who else would have?

Some other Greek dude.

Greek influence seems to be very profound to me. For one, it extended farther to the East (which mattered more then) than Roman/Christian influence.

You're wrong there. Christianity spread pretty damn far east.

 

[Sharwood]

you are right. I should have phrased it better. Jesus might have existed. I was assuming we were talking about the "son of God", "cured lepers", "walked on water" Jesus. hence my reference to a fictional character. sorry.

Pff, we all know the only reason Jesus walked on water is because he couldn't swim.

I'm gonna have to go with Jesus on this one. Sure, Alexander spread Hellenic culture East. But it was Rome which spread it West, along with Christianity, and that's where both have had their greatest impact.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Alexander as long as we are talking about persons that have existed. Jesus gets the vote when we include fictional characters.

Jesus probably was real not much people debate that. The religion he founded on the other hand...

 

[Nylan]

Why don't you think Jesus existed?

Banner ad told him so.

 

[aelf]

how did Afghanistan and Iraq matter more than the Near East in the Early Classical Era?

I'm sort of lumping the Greco-Roman (at least until the Principate) period together. Near East is part of the East, as well as India and China. In the West you have Iberia, Gaul, Britannia, etc.

Also, don't underestimate the impact of the nomadic tribes of the steppe. They came into contact with the Seleucids and the Bactrians and even settled in the former lands of the latter, becoming sedentary.

And what? Christianity's influence is on the decline today! If Christianity made no great influence from - 0 A.D. - 1700 A.D. nothing did (try Constantine, Crusades, impetus for Spanish colonization, the salvation of Latin in the monasteries, the solidarity of Europe in the middle ages.. need I go on?)

Are you sure that not at least half of the things you can bring up chiefly caused by factors other than Christianity? From the few examples you give (except maybe the Crusades), it doesn't seem so.

You're wrong there. Christianity spread pretty damn far east.

You mean the Nestorians? I'm having trouble understanding how they even matter at all.