Who needs a navy anymore?

[zeeter]

I think that the biggest issue here is that we cannot use privateers and subs for intercepting trade. While I don't applaud this fact, it is nice not to have to handle this stuff manually all the time.
On the other hand, as far as warships go the use of subs is very reallistic. The trick seems to be to maneuver to a position where you may attack with the first movement point of the round, then if successful run away and hide. While we may have attacked shipping more that warships, the method of doing so is pretty cool - almost a game within itself.
One thing that I think would be cool is to have weather. Wouldn't it be neat to be able to hide in a squall after attacking? And if its raining too hard your planes cannot take off from carriers. If a WWII era unit wanted to find you in a squall they would have to use one movement point for Radar.

 

[Moulton]

Archers did not stand toe to toe with the knights, either... bur far off, behind the trees or whatever they could find for cover.
Maybe we should make the longbowman a bombard unit?

 

[Cluk]

Firaxis oughta do this:

Move your ship (any combat ship, but subs and privateers don't reveal national identity) next to an enemy city w/ harbor and set it on "Blockade". Like fortify, it requires a full turn to do. The blockaded city cannot use its port for trading. If the ship is engaged at all, the blockade is disrupted and goods can move through.

 

[nicuss]

...or have a coastal city produce one less food/trade per water square for each enemy ship set to fortify/blocade within that city's radius.

 

[Psychlone]

Here's a novel strategy I usually use, because as Zouave says, who needs navies? Simply put, I barely build any naval units at all. In any game, if I have more than 12 ships of all types, it's unusual. I make a few ironclads or destroyers to escort my transports (which I usually use maybe twice at most) and that's about it. I don't generally get ideas about territory overseas until I can start airlifting units in. Run a small invasion fleet across, drop a settler and a defense force, rush an airport, and let the airlift begin.

So the computer wants to build 30 frigates and sail them across the ocean to bombard my improvements, big deal. If they want to spend 150-200 turns of production to blow up some improvements a worker can rebuild for free in 5 turns, I say let them. If losing a few squares of improvements to shore bombardment is going to really hurt you, you've already lost the game, your civ's body just hasn't hit the ground yet.

So the computer navies escort a couple of caravels or galleons and bring a few troops to my shores. Big deal, for their 30 frigates' worth of production, I've got about 30 riflemen and 20 cavalry ready to kick their 6-8 knights and swordsmen back into the surf. (Those 100 year-long sea journeys really tend to favor the defender, technologically speaking)

As for navies not being able to kill land units via bombardment, that actually makes perfect sense. Witness WW2 naval bombardments, sometimes lasting days, leaving atolls looking like the surface of the moon. Did they kill off all the defenders? Not even close. When the smoke clears, it's still the crunchies down in the mud and blood that conquer the territory, all that naval firepower has about as much to do with the battle result as the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders do upon the final score of a football game.

 

[Hurricane]

I´ve never built privateers, but I use subs to a large extent. My favourite tactic is to use them together with bombers based at key points in my empire. When an enemy ship appears, I move a sub or preferably two near it (I usually spot the ships with air recon) and bombard the s**t out of it. Then it´s easy to make the final kill with the sub. Lurking outside enemy harbors is useful only if you have excess subs, since they usually are not stong enough to make an attack on their own.

Also, subs are great for reconnoitring the way for your invasion force. Remember that subs can spot enemy subs. I have one or two subs moving some 5 tiles ahead of my invasion force, consisting of several transports, a few battleships and a carrier. If I spot an enemy, I bombard it with bombers from my carrier, and take it out with a battleship. I prefer subs over destroyers because a lone destroyer is easily found and destroyed. A nuclear sub has move 5 (same as carrier), so it doesn+t even slow my force down.

Still, I agree with much of Zouave´s thoughts. I would have preferred to see a naval system working a bit like the air system (with missions instead of moves, like ground units), meaning naval units would have much greater range. Think unlimited range rebase mission, with the possibility of being intercepted by an enemy on patrol. And this would of course need a stacking system. So I don´t expect to see it until Civ4.