Who should declare polls invalid?
- Thread starter fed1943
- Start date
ravensfire
Member of the Opposition
Will you be able to validate/invalidate each and every poll the moment it is posted?
Probably not. Also, what you find valid might not meet what another person finds invalid.
None of us are on the site 24/7. Heck, I probably average under an hour per day. Somedays I don't even log in. So, the challenge is to create a timeframe that DOES give most people the opportunity to see the poll. By extension, that includes most members of the Judiciary. That timeframe cannot be too long, however, as that would delay the game. Most polls are 3-4 days, so such a timeframe is reasonable.
Two things missing from this. 1) Polls that close and cause an irreversible action before they can be invalidated. 2) Invalidated polls that cover an action that will be executed before an appeal can be created.
Personal answers. 1) Action cannot be reversed, poll can be invalidated as both education and to prevent use of a precedent for the future. 2) Up to the leader.
-- Ravensfire
Nobody
Gangster
i say the courts, if the poll isnt legal then have a judical review asking if its legal or not.
ravensfire
Member of the Opposition
ravensfire
Member of the Opposition
Yeah, it is a bit confusing. Let me think on a rewrite.
Basically, the idea is that if a poll is about an action that cannot be reversed (Civ4 game action, basically), once that action happens, it's fixed. The poll can be invalidated AFTER that happens (1 day poll, but we allow 3 days to invalidate), but that invalidation will only prevent the poll from being used for future actions.
-- Ravensfire
Basically, the idea is that if a poll is about an action that cannot be reversed (Civ4 game action, basically), once that action happens, it's fixed. The poll can be invalidated AFTER that happens (1 day poll, but we allow 3 days to invalidate), but that invalidation will only prevent the poll from being used for future actions.
-- Ravensfire
While I see that the appeal has to be posted in the judiciary thread (it would be good to include that it is to be in the thread of the current term), I do not see were the first ruling by one member of the judiciary is to be posted. I would ask to include a clause that the ruling to invalidate has to be posted in the invalidated poll's thread.
This is just to make sure that the invalidation ruling is not just posted in the judiciary thread and thus might not be noticed prior to the 24 hours limit.
Otherwise
Ravensfire,
I would hope that the member of the Judiciary invalidating a poll would explain why she/he took that action. By doing so, our Citizens could begin to learn what makes a poll improper. We would also develop a more substantial set of precedents for judging the validity of future polls.
In fact, I suggest that this initiative should mandate that the Judiciary member invalidating a poll post his ruling, i.e. an explanation of why the poll is not valid.
Please consider the following language for incorporation into the initiative:
"Any member of the Judiciary invalidating a poll shall post her reason for doing so at the time of invalidation."
Many thanks,
Gaidynne
I would hope that the member of the Judiciary invalidating a poll would explain why she/he took that action. By doing so, our Citizens could begin to learn what makes a poll improper. We would also develop a more substantial set of precedents for judging the validity of future polls.
In fact, I suggest that this initiative should mandate that the Judiciary member invalidating a poll post his ruling, i.e. an explanation of why the poll is not valid.
Please consider the following language for incorporation into the initiative:
"Any member of the Judiciary invalidating a poll shall post her reason for doing so at the time of invalidation."
Many thanks,
Gaidynne
ravensfire
Member of the Opposition
ori and Gaidynne - great points! I think both of this will be, and need to be, added.
Still pondering the rest, today was taken up with other matters.
-- Ravensfire
Still pondering the rest, today was taken up with other matters.
-- Ravensfire
ravensfire
Member of the Opposition
Version .2!
Poll Invalidation Act of XXXXBC (date TBD at time of poll posting)
Section 1 - Invalidation
Any member of the Judiciary may declare a poll to be invalid at any time prior to the poll closing, or 72 hours after the poll has opened, which ever is later. This invalidation must be done with a post by the member of the Judiciary invalidating the poll in the poll thread. This post must clearly state that the poll has been invalidated and the reason(s) they are invalidating the poll.
Polls that are invalidated do not count as any form of decision making.
Polls that result in an irreversible action be taken before any invalidation post may still be invalidated, but the action will not be reversed. For example - an in-game action is taken during a game session before an invalidation post. The results of that poll may not be used as a precedent for future actions.
Section 2 - Appeal
Any citizen objecting to an invalidation may appeal it to the full Judiciary. The Judiciary will conduct all appeals in a timely manner as specified in the Judicial procedures. This appeal must be made within 24 hours of the invalidation, and must be posted in the Judicial thread.
If the appeal is upheld, the poll is immediately considered valid.
--------------------
Changelog:
v.0 - posted
v.1
-- Moved timing of appeal to Appeal section
-- Added clause about irreversible actions
-- Invalidated polls don't count
v.2
-- Clarified where the invalidation is done
-- Add requirement for explanation of why poll is invalidated
-- Clarified "irreversible action" section
-- Ravensfire
Poll Invalidation Act of XXXXBC (date TBD at time of poll posting)
Section 1 - Invalidation
Any member of the Judiciary may declare a poll to be invalid at any time prior to the poll closing, or 72 hours after the poll has opened, which ever is later. This invalidation must be done with a post by the member of the Judiciary invalidating the poll in the poll thread. This post must clearly state that the poll has been invalidated and the reason(s) they are invalidating the poll.
Polls that are invalidated do not count as any form of decision making.
Polls that result in an irreversible action be taken before any invalidation post may still be invalidated, but the action will not be reversed. For example - an in-game action is taken during a game session before an invalidation post. The results of that poll may not be used as a precedent for future actions.
Section 2 - Appeal
Any citizen objecting to an invalidation may appeal it to the full Judiciary. The Judiciary will conduct all appeals in a timely manner as specified in the Judicial procedures. This appeal must be made within 24 hours of the invalidation, and must be posted in the Judicial thread.
If the appeal is upheld, the poll is immediately considered valid.
--------------------
Changelog:
v.0 - posted
v.1
-- Moved timing of appeal to Appeal section
-- Added clause about irreversible actions
-- Invalidated polls don't count
v.2
-- Clarified where the invalidation is done
-- Add requirement for explanation of why poll is invalidated
-- Clarified "irreversible action" section
-- Ravensfire
ravensfire
Member of the Opposition
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