Who Should Lead China In Civilization VII

[reddishrecue]

Liu Bang... nothing like going home to play Rise of the Phoenix and have some Chinese food.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Liu Bang
Since he's the first leader of China to implement Confucianism phillosophy to his governance. and he reigns very long. being the first 'Emperor' not to die young.
He did leave many traces in Chinese history. including an idiom 'To build a plankway by high cliffs' and how he not only ousted Qin dynasty (After Zhao Gao's complacent and corrupt regency (his infamous 'To point a deer and call it a horse' (指鹿為馬) is an origin of japanese exclaimation 'Baka' (馬鹿)) ruined many things Qin Shihuang built) and his ability to defeat much more powerful Xiang Yu and thus claim the Mandate of Heaven. Liu Bang's dynasty also last long (some 200 years or so).

 

[ShadowWarrior]

I think quite a few will rebel if Kublai Khan leads China in Civ VII. Song Tai Zhu (not sure if I got the spelling or name right), the founder of the Song dynasty, should be on the list of nominee. I am Taiwanese, so I absolutely abhor Mao Ze Dong or anyone from the Communist period to represent China. For that matter, anyone from the Republican era shouldnt be on the list neither. But if game designer wants to make boat load of money, have Xi Jin Ping lead China. I am reasonably sure that if Xi Jin Ping leads China in the game, Civ VII will be required mandatory game for all Chinese children.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

A really left field option: Sun Yat-sen. Plenty of good reasons why he shouldn't lead China, but he's respected(?) on both sides. Hopefully he gets no bonuses to railways.

Mao, Chiang, Cixi, and "the Dogmeat General" are all insults to Chinese history as far as I'm concerned...

The first 3 were me being lazy. Zhang Zongchang has some hilarious nicknames and a really funny poem (Poem About Ba*****s)

I think quite a few will rebel if Kublai Khan leads China in Civ VII. Song Tai Zhu (not sure if I got the spelling or name right), the founder of the Song dynasty, should be on the list of nominee. I am Taiwanese, so I absolutely abhor Mao Ze Dong or anyone from the Communist period to represent China. For that matter, anyone from the Republican era shouldnt be on the list neither. But if game designer wants to make boat load of money, have Xi Jin Ping lead China. I am reasonably sure that if Xi Jin Ping leads China in the game, Civ VII will be required mandatory game for all Chinese children.

I am sorry if I did anything wrong. I was really tired and lazy when creating the list. Personally, I am pro-Taiwan and also think of the CCP as a wretched party. Someone from the Song Dynasty, as you said, could be fun and interesting.
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Just a note guys, you can vote up to 4 people on the list
And why would someone vote for Mao Zedong, one of history's worst villains?

 

[Phantagonist]

I have voted for Han Wudi and Yongle Emperor. But should Han Wudi or Tang Taizong is chosen, let's hope they would do some history research before making the leader call themselves Han Wudi/Tang Taizong. It is their posthumous title/temple name, i.e. title given to these emperors after their deaths. (Not a Korean history expert myself, but I remember Sejong is also a temple name.)

Market-wise speaking, I just don't think Firaxis would choose any leader from the Qing Dynasty or after that (at least not as the first leader), doing so would simply mean giving up the Chinese market.

 

[Taizong4Civ7]

For that matter, anyone from the Republican era shouldnt be on the list neither

^ Anyone who died after the First Opium War is too recent history.

As an alternative, most of the Chinese leaders in Phantagonist's mods are good leader choices.

 

[Henri Christophe]

My knoledge of China is not that deep so I voted for Mao because it is the only one I rly know.
Wu Zetian, Qin Shi Huang and Kublai Khan was in previous games so I may know something about they.
About others I just recognize Chang Kaishek who should be a cool leader since he is a national hero of Taiwan and China at same time.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ I've read some Sinologist FB pages particularly ones regarding to governments and i've slowly learned some from discussions. regarding to origins of Chinese proverb and their Five Thousand Years history.
stil with my limited Chinese language knowledge i could only learn secondary or tertiary sources.

 

[pineappledan]

Just finished reading some books about post-16th century Chinese history, so I feel prepared for this question

I think Han Wudi is a great pick, and considering how many leaders/dynasties have been in the series now, the Han dynasty is fresh. Another Tang leader would also be good, but Wu Zetian is sort of like a Tang leader already, and she has been in the series twice three times.

Chiang Kai Shek would be an especially bad pick. He is reviled in mainland China, and not well-liked by the Taiwanese, for that matter. Considering his open admiration and emulation of Mussolini, Firaxis might not just be risking having the game banned in China, but maybe also Germany.

 

[Quintillus]

I care more about who shouldn't lead China than who should.

It is interesting to note that in Civ1 and Civ3, Mao was the only available leader of China, and he was of of the leaders of China in Civ2 and Civ4. He hasn't featured since then.

I think part of this is the changing politics and views of China in the West. The 1990s and 2000s were a very optimistic time in the West. Fall of the USSR, belief in being able to move the People's Republic of China towards being a liberal democracy through trade - basically the same idea as the Wandel durch Handel policy that Germany pursued with Russia. In that sense of optimism, Mao was not the controversial choice he would be today, with Xi leading the PRC.

Maybe he should have been more controversial then - the Great Leap Forward was not entirely a leap forward, after all - but I think the other change is in Firaxis's knowledge of history. After all, Stalin was the leader of Russia in Civilization I (and an option in Civ IV). Two of the leaders in the first game were responsible for great famines. There was arguably a bias towards modern history, which makes sense if the history department didn't have a great depth of knowledge about farther-back history.

Ultimately, for a game about history, it makes sense to choose widely recognized leaders from a time period far enough back that it doesn't involve current politics. No one is personally emotionally invested in the Punic Wars anymore, but the government system of China remains a touchy topic, probably more than it was 20 years ago. And China has more than enough history to have lots of good options from before 1900 (and indeed from before 1644).

 

[pineappledan]

There's a weird overrepresentiation of 20th century figures in the poll. Meanwhile, there isn't a single Song Dynasty option, which I find a bit strange.

The Song Dynasty was perhaps the most dynamic and progressive era in Chinese history, a great option if China were to be done as a science-focused civ. The Dynasty saw the invention of gunpowder and its military applications, like fire lances and eruptors. The magnetic compass and movable type printing was invented too. The capital at Kaifeng become an industrial superpower, with coal-fired forges and an extensive trade route, leveraging its position on the Grand Canal. Emperor Zhenzong imported new strains of rice from southeast Asia and revolutionized food production, creating a large surplus and a population boom. Economically, the empire devolved its control of the economy, and issued the first paper bank notes, creating one of the first proto-free market economies. No shortage of material for civ bonuses and unique abilities in all of that.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

There's a weird overrepresentiation of 20th century figures in the poll. Meanwhile, there isn't a single Song Dynasty option, which I find a bit strange.

The Song Dynasty was perhaps the most dynamic and progressive era in Chinese history, a great option if China were to be done as a science-focused civ. The Dynasty saw the invention of gunpowder and its military applications, like fire lances and eruptors. The magnetic compass and movable type printing was invented too. The capital at Kaifeng become an industrial superpower, with coal-fired forges and an extensive trade route, leveraging its position on the Grand Canal. Emperor Zhenzong imported new strains of rice from southeast Asia and revolutionized food production, creating a large surplus and a population boom. Economically, the empire devolved its control of the economy, and issued the first paper bank notes, creating one of the first proto-free market economies. No shortage of material for civ bonuses and unique abilities in all of that.

Thanks pinapple dan!

 

[Zaarin]

Mao, maybe, if PRC policies have relaxed (though Deng did a LOT more to make modern China what is now, and even used the clever trick of turning Mao into an icon and symbol, but reversing a LOT of his policies which he clearly saw as economically, socially, and politically disastrous, and if there HAD to be - and were allowed to be - a PRC leader, he'd be a much better choice, if not as iconic). But Chiang or Cixi? Really?

I mean, except for coming from opposite ends of the ideological spectrum, I don't see any difference between Chiang and Mao. Both were psychotic. One just had a secular church spring up around his image to smooth over the rough edges. Sometimes. Sometimes they just reveled in the rough edges.

I think quite a few will rebel if Kublai Khan leads China in Civ VII. Song Tai Zhu (not sure if I got the spelling or name right), the founder of the Song dynasty, should be on the list of nominee. I am Taiwanese, so I absolutely abhor Mao Ze Dong or anyone from the Communist period to represent China. For that matter, anyone from the Republican era shouldnt be on the list neither. But if game designer wants to make boat load of money, have Xi Jin Ping lead China. I am reasonably sure that if Xi Jin Ping leads China in the game, Civ VII will be required mandatory game for all Chinese children.

Yes, Taizu of Song would be a good option.