whoknows01 - C3C Training on Monarch - Conq/Dom

Of course you are accepted.
I believe with the sugars you are talking about start c??? If we are talking about C then we ought to move the Settler west/sw onto the hill for defense bonus and have two areas of the river, with the sugars. Because we are despot. we can just mine over the sugars until we get to rep. or monarch.

I will post the save game (when I get home from school and getting a haircut) and if anyone feels comfortable to go first, I will have you first on the roster, and so on. You can request which spot you want.

There is still one or two spots open so if anyone else wants to join they can. If not, we will start playing later tonight hopefully.
 
Roster

whoknows888
Mach
TCS1
Predesad
-Open-(?)
 
Welcome predesad! :goodjob:

I'm pretty torn as to how to start this one. I agree, we're settling either on the sw hill or the w grassland. If there's a food bonus around, I think we'll want to settle towards that. Otherwise, I think it's the hill -- we get that defensive bonus, it's on the same side of the river as our roaded sugar plains (so we get the movement bonus), and (I think) it can be at 10spt at size 5. We'll need to find another site to be our settler pump...

What we need is more information! Maybe the first thing we should do is move the worker on to the nw mountain ("Mt. Lookout")? We'll get a good view from there, and we'll know exactly where to settle on turn 2. The downside is we lose 2 worker turns, but if there's wheat to the nw and we miss it by settling on the hill, we'll be kicking ourselves later...
 
i hate to lose the worker turns, but you are probably right, move worker to hill might be best. its a situation where if we dont we might regret it and if we do we might say it was a waste of time. Better to move worker to hills than settler only to see something which makes us move settler again and waste a settler turn.
 
okay, after some further reflection i have a few other suggestions, really just one:

Avoid the ultra-early despotic GA with the Jaguar warriors. I suggest we use them as scouts early and during wars they will come in handy for grabbing workers and pillaging, but I do not think at the Monarch level on this size world we should have that ultra-early GA. Especially since our best tiles around our capitol will provide little / no benefit from GA, the BG and the sugars once mined will already give 2 shields, no additional in GA. Most worked tiles will probably be around the river in the capitol and once roaded will provide 2 commerce, so no additional commerce from GA, with the exception the sugars would provide an additional because one would be lost to tile penalty anyway. But that's my $.02. I think we can do some really good early warring by using the jags to scout then building barracks and archers for the actual fighting, until swords / horses are available.
 
predesad said:
Avoid the ultra-early despotic GA with the Jaguar warriors.
I agree completely. As for an archer rush, we should only do that if anyone is close enough, otherwise maybe we should landgrab and try the later warrior -> sword upgrade route. What is everybody's thinking on initial build order? I was thinking jag -> jag -> settler. Send one jag east & one jag west.

I was also thinking about what to research, if anything. Since we're going a-warring, I'd love to be in Monarchy asap. We start with pottery & warrior code, which is a bit tough...not a lot of trade value there, and no second tier tech available. Maybe we could do a min run on Alphabet, since it's tough to trade for. We could go max on cb, to go up the Monarchy branch. Or we could go 0% sci, and use the gpt to do some trades.

I think I'm leaning toward 0%, hoping to trade for cb & myst, and then turning on max sci to Monarchy. In this case, we'll have to be careful not to trade gpt with anyone we're going to declare war on early. (I have a bad problem with losing my rep in my solo games, try as I might.) Any opinions?

On a different subject, I was thinking about wonders. I think we should agree on no ancient wonders, unless we capture them. Any agreement?

@whoknows -- I can take it first if you'd like, although I can't play it until tonight. How many turns are we playing?
 
First person is playing 20 turns and then after 10 turns for each player. I agree everything with what you guys say, and that we should head for monarchy. We will probably be at a constant war so it'd be nice. The first builds might be like jag war -> jag war -> settler. like you said.

Rosters with the order and names will be good to go tonight and will post the save this afternoon.
 
lurker's comment: Have you looked at who your opponents are in the various saves? If you are doing 0% research it is not as big of a deal but if you are planning on doing some minimum run gambits for tech it is wise to look at who you are playing against to see what 1st level techs are out there and available. Next, you say that you should beeline to monarchy. If you are going for 0% research how do you plan to do that? Also do not underestimate the power of Republic for even the biggest warmongering game. It will provide you with much more cash to buy your tech and the WW only gets bad if you stay at war to long. I like to go Republic as it makes me concentrate on what goals I am trying to achieve in the war. I can't lolly-gag around like I can in monarchy. It makes me be more decisive.

Good luck!
 
Misfit said:
Have you looked at who your opponents are in the various saves?
Not yet...no save yet. I had this as a high priority in my head. I agree, this is potentially important.

Misfit said:
If you are going for 0% research
I thought this was pretty much just a guideline, that this was a straight-up game except we'd practice our trading skills. I figured this meant we'd do 0% sometimes, some min runs, and some targeted researching. I figured philosophy (& that free tech) was out, to make trading more important. (Whoknows, is that what you intended?) I'm hoping we'll do some talking about trading strategy as we go along.

Misfit said:
Also do not underestimate the power of Republic for even the biggest warmongering game.
What you say here is interesting. I'm naturally a builder-type, but in my attempts at warmongering, I've found that the unit costs are killer in republic. I think then I'll take what you say to heart; I've got something to learn here. Maybe we'll go republic and figure out how to make it work. :thanx: for the tip! Hey guys: what say we decide government later, after getting a look at the tactical situation?
 
let's wait about the gov't, if lots of river sites and size 2 (7-12 citizens) cities before aqueducts then republic is more viable if we also get markets in place, but let's wait and see.

i had thought the 0% research was out, some min research at times might pay off, like if we capture the great library. assuming it is okay to hit f10 and look at our opponents, perhaps we should consider aiming to trade for alphabet (jag warriors should give lots of contacts early, esecially on pangea) then go for republic slingshot, even if we dont change to republic it is very valuable as trade bait, but i think we should go for the free tech by either researching alphabet first or hoping to trade for it first, in which case we can research The Wheel at start?? or whatever is decided by the first player.

As far as research, I have a dedicated path in the AA which follows writing to republic via slingshot, then literature and then currency, this is usually all i research in AA because with this path I can trade for the rest. i am not reccommending that exact path, just a little insight from previous games. Of course, with this strategy, i sometimes let the Ai get 3-4 techs ahead of me before making some trades so I can get fair value.

I am also thinking about another opening moves approach, worker to mountains, if no food bonus in that direction, settler to hills which is a fine place to settle anyway and anything we could see form those hills should be within reach after culture expansion. this maximizes chances of finding a food bonus, a cow or wheat gives a settler factory with what we have already, i am pretty sure, but we might have to settle on BG to do so, but the trade off is huge. Just another possibility to think over.
 
Predesad - Up (hope you don't mind)
Mach - On deck
whoknows888
TCS1

hope you guys don't mind how I made the roster.

Here is the save.
 
Here is the save for the next player, Mach, I actually only played 19.75 ;) turns, settler just built and left it to next player what direction to move settler, also luxury slider needs to be moved back to 0%, forgot to do that before saving. Will post log later, time for work now.
 
predesad you have a screen? You also forgot your logbook. :eek: :crazyeye: ;)
 
@whoknows -- he said he'd post later... :p

I was able to look at the save this morning, looks like a good set of turns. I'll wait for the log to comment more. I can play it tonight, but if we want to discuss some stuff before I take my turns then I can play tomorrow night instead.

One thing, when I opened the save, I noticed that the f10 button wasn't working for me. All the other fkeys seemed to work, but when I hit f10 nothing happened. Did f10 work for you predesad? Just out of curiosity, are we all using patch 1.22? I have civ iii complete, which I think is on that patch already...
 
Sorry, I didn't read all the way through. Yeah I have civ 3 comp. also. I will be on later at 9 or 10 centeral time, because I have to go to church and it is Ash Wed.

Later guys and sorry about that predesad and Mach
 
okay guys, sorry about the delay but i just barely managed to squeeze in the turns before work this morning and i am working about 12 hours a day right now which is unusual, i figured it was better to post the save sans log than to make Mach wait so he could at least look at the save.

@TimBentley - Duh about the f10 thing, thanks for pointing this out, i was also wondering why f10 would not work.

turn 1 - 4000 BC: debated over worker to mountains or worker to hills, chose worker to mountains, realized there was not going to be a food bonus in any direction, plus we were very near coast. moved settler "W" to grasslands to be next to coast

turn 2 - 3950 BC: Technotitlan founded; build set to Jag (8 turns, but really 7 do to growth on 7th turn); worker to sugar; noticed f10 problem, used f11 to get a look at top 10 cities among which were England, Korea, and Byz so plenty of opportunity for trade for alphabet, however, research @ 100% gives alphabet in 27 turns (surely would shorten with growth & rivers) so I decided to forego the trade for alphabet gambit and research it @ 100%

turn 3 - 3900 BC: set Worker to build mine on sugar

turns 4 - 8 (3850 BC - 3650 BC) hit enter repeatedly

turn 9 - 3600 BC: Technotitlan builds Jag, renamed to Bob for easy reference, anyone who wants to rename to something more creative feel free to do so; set production to build another Jag (4 turns); order worker to build road on sugar; Bob heads east

turn 10 - 3550 BC: Bob sees goody hut and makes contact with Chinese warrior, they have Masonry over us, we have onthing to offer but 10 gold and they laugh in our face

turn 11 - 3500 BC: Chinese warrior pooped the hut, believe they received ceremonial burial; Bob continues east

turn 12 - 3450 BC: cultural expansion of Technotitlan, see incense just outside our borders; worker moves to other sugar; Bob continues east

turn 13 - 3400 BC: Technotitlan builds Jag, renamed to Fred (see turn 9); production set to settler (8 turns); Fred goes north, Bob continues east; worker ordered to build mine on second sugar

turn 14 - 3350 BC: Bob reaches east coast, spots ivory and a goody hut on top of a mountain; Fred goes north

turn 15 - 3300 BC: Bob pops barbs from hut; Fred continues north

turn 16 - 3250 BC: Bob kills barb, promotes to veteran, back to mountains to heal (3/4 HP); Technotitlan reaches 3 citizens, one is unhappy, luxury rate increased to 10% to avoid civil disorder; Fred continues north

turn 17 - 3200 BC: Bob rests; Fred continues north

turn 18 - 3150 BC: Bob kills another barb then rettreats to mountains to heal (2/4 HP); Fred finds Chinese city of Beijing (13 tiles NE of Technotitlan), the Chinese now have ceremonial burial, mnasonry, and bronze working over us, but we still have nothing but 10 gold to trade

turn 19 - 3100 BC: worker ordered to build road on sugars; Bob rests; Fred continues north

turn 20 - 3050 BC: Technotitlan builds settler; production set to granary, I do not think we have a settler factory near us, but there is still a possibility of a food bonus to the south (unexplored) with the agr trait and a granary we can at least have an 8 turn settler factory, did not fully analyze for possibilities but hopefully build a couple units in between settlers, might also want a barracks there, or perhaps the granary should be switched to barracks, or maybe another Jag is in order I leave those decisions to Mach; Bob rests; Fred continues north; saved & uploaded game to thread

As reported earlier, I forgot to reset luxury to 0 after settler build since we no longer have an unhappy citizen, so that needs to be done ASAP. I did not move the settler because it was my last turn and I thought I would just hand off this decision to Mach as he begins his turns. Of course he should consider this first turn in which he moves the slider and settler as a freebie and not part of his allotted 10 or 20 (is it 20 turns for first round or first player, i cant remember)

I will also post a screenie after I load the game, give me about 10 minutes. I am thinking we should focus on Technotitlan and another city for settlers with some units mixed in between settlers, ideally we would have a granary and barrack in both cities. River sites near capitol seem plentiful. Alphabet is about 4 turns away, I think, we should trade with Chinese of course for techs. We should also plan to wipe out China because they are pretty close, but thoughts of war are somewhat distant. As far as units, I suggest Jags for exploration, archers for future wars / barb dispersal, no warriors / spears, but that is all just my $.02. Good luck to the rest of the rotation.
 
Also, I am still inclined to pursue Republic slingshot if others agree. And I agree with whoever said no AA wonder builds, except if the circumstances are right and we get that ivory hooked up we might consider SoZ, but that is prolly a longshot. Oh, and btw, there are 2 BG by thew river underneath the name of the city for a total of 4 BG in our city radius, 3 by river in addition to the sugars, that means 5 citizens = 11 shields & 12 commerce in despotism.
 

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Thanks predesad, it must suck having to work for 12 hours. It is 10 turns per player now. I agree with you and, we should probably do the Rep sling although, WW if we got to war with China is possible, so maybe Monarchy might be the best. We will see. Good job predesad.

Roster

predesad - Finished
Mach - Up
whoknows888 - On deck
TCS1
 
Nice start, solid turns. Good job on alpha, it looks like that's going to work out well. :goodjob:

A few things

1.) Note that Bejing is size 1, so they most probably have a settler out.
2.) How tight to do you guys like your cities? I'm probably going to plop the settler here...
whoknows01_2ndcity.JPG

...and start on a granary.
3.) I'm trying to figure out if the Chinese know anyone else. If they got cb from that hut, then they still somehow got pots & bw. Most likely they researched one of those, so I'm thinking they don't know anyone else yet. Regardless, I'll get what we can for alpha from them, and hope for other contacts. Maybe we can get a currah out of Tenoch after the granary?
4.) There is a spot to the east that has two flood plains, maybe we can get a 2 turn worker factory out of it someday? Or is it too far away?

Ok, Republic ho! it is. That makes this a got it . I'll play tonight.
 
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