Why air units suck in civ3?

[Akaman]

This is my first thread here. I read most of other forums before posting this. But still I'm not sure if this is the right place for posting such thread.

Anyway I think civ team has done a very miserable job in revising air unit capabilities and characteristics. Compared to Alpha Centauri, in which air units are source of real power and even civ2, I just want to cry out loud for what air units are in civ3.

This is what happens when I want to attack AI with my air force:
I research flight and use my time before motorized transportation for building bombers and fighters. I am an average player. In general in monarch difficulty level, I manage to build about 20-25 bombers and stockpile them in one of my border cities.
I declare war on AI. Attack him/her with horde of tanks and heavy bombardment from air. guess what? This can be done only a few turns! First of all, I permanently see that damned "Our bombardment failed" message which shows one decisive turn in harming enemy is lost. Also AI has bombers too and it uses them to bomb the city full of my bombers and the funny point is that they bomb my PRECIOUS bombers!! (And not those stupid MECHs) reducing them to 10-12 very fast. My fighters are useless. They practically can't stop the destruction of my airforce. SAMS and flacs also don't seem to do anything aganist it. So after a few turns, I decide to use artillery instead of bombers and attack only with my ground force. Till now, I haven't been able to use my airforce really efficiently. The case with paratroopers, helicopters and cruise missiles are even worse and I'd better not mention them! (Cruise missile! That deadly weapon in real world is now just a small fly with a funny sting!)

WHY? Why on earth air units must be so pathetic? In real world, air superiority is the key element in winning wars (WW2 & The gulf war). But in CIV3 and C3C air units are just luxuries! Just beautiful expensive and practically useless military units. To be fair, I must confess that air units can do a good job defending your territory, bombing the invaders heavily. But this is not what I really expect from them!

In Alpha Centauri, gaining air power can help you a lot. Your air units are really really powerful units which can destroy an enemy totally. Even in CIV2 air power meant something! If there exists just ONE reason for releasing next version of this game, it will be redesigning air units and air combat!

Other opinnions and suggestions are appreciated. Especially I'd like to know if there's a way to destroy an enemy effectively with airforce!

 

[Tatran]

Air power can also be overpowered if the enemy
doesn't have oil.

 

[Theoden]

Acually air forces were beefed up a lot in conquests expansion giving all of them lethal sea bombardement and lethal land bombardement to the bombers. If you steal the enemies military plans you should be able to see where his fighters is located. That will help you decide where to bomb.

I declare war on AI. Attack him/her with horde of tanks and heavy bombardment from air. guess what? This can be done only a few turns! AI has bombers too and it uses them to bomb the city full of my bombers and the funny point is that they bomb my PRECIOUS bombers!! (And not those stupid MECHs) reducing them to 10-12 very fast. My fighters are useless. They practically can't stop the destruction of my airforce. SAMS and flacs also don't seem to do anything aganist it.

Did you remember to set your fighters to air supiroty? And have you remembered to fortify those sams and flacs?
Also air units is always the first to take damage from other air units regardless of defenses.

To be fair, I must confess that air units can do a good job defending your territory, bombing the invaders heavily. But this is not what I really expect from them!

Completely true. Bombers are also powerful defensive troops and should be used so if units are invading your territory.

In Alpha Centauri, gaining air power can help you a lot. Your air units are really really powerful units which can destroy an enemy totally

I've destroyed an enemy totally with bombers in civ3

If you do not maintain an airforce then your enemy will start bombing and if you cant defend yourself, your territory is going to be a mess really soon.

For tactics on how to use units effectively i would recommend looking in the war academy

Hope that helps.
And welcome to CFC

Theoden

 

[Akaman]

Did you remember to set your fighters to air supiroty? And have you remembered to fortify those sams and flacs?
Also air units is always the first to take damage from other air units regardless of defenses.

Yes. I do it. I have also read the article in war academy about air superiority. It seems you need many fighters assigned to air superiority to increase the chance of interception, while I guess AI does it with much less fighters. Also fortifying SAMs -as you have mentioned- does not help, when a crude bomber comes and drops bomb over a fighter ,probably killing the pilot, so the fighter can't pray that big slow bombing machine!!. But I I'll consider using SAMs in my invasions to protect my armies from being relentlessly bombarded by AI.

In general, I prefer to find where AI has stored his/her bombers and then raise that city (I once did it and then felt really happy ) This seems to me much easier approach than engaging practically in air combats.

I've destroyed an enemy totally with bombers in civ3

The fact that you have destroyed an enemy effectively with bombers really surprised me! Will you give more detail on that game?
Aftar all, I think there may be no other way to enjoy air combats. Maybe I must search for a scenario or try to create one myself.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

You're contradicting yourself .
You complain how little you could achieve with your Bombers, and the same time, how effective the AI uses them...

1) It is absolutely realistic that Airplanes and Ships in cities are hit first by airstrikes.
So, why do you put those in cities? Use airfields next to them to station your Fighters there.
Pure realism, nothing else.

2) C3C Bombers are overpowered, not useless. Luckily, unlike Artillery the AI uses Bombers quite well, so at least it isn't completely unbalanced.

 

[El Justo]

tinkering with the "Rate of Fire" stats in the editor could be an option; at least as far as the wretched "Our bombardent failed!" message is concerned.

 

[Pentium]

What's "rate of fire"?

I first thought that it's how many times an unit can bomb, but it's not. Is it how likely you are to hit something?

 

[Tomoyo]

It's how many rolls you get on a bombing run.

 

[ybbor]

may i ask what your bombing? cities? roads/railroads/irrigation/mining out side of cities? stacks of units out in the open? i personally find bombing roads, mines et. all to be the most effective with the craters it leaves, bomb the surroundings of the city and no more strategic rsources, bomb the outside of the capital and no more trade

 

[bkwrm79]

Bombers are only useful strategically in large numbers, but in large numbers they can reduce a city to ruins. I often send my land forces in one direction, while my air force renders a couple of cities useless to my enemy. No city improvements, no terrain improvements (including roads/rails so they can't easily attack me), only a small population left.

Tactically they're more powerful defensively than offensively, at least in PTW.

I like that the AI uses it well... one of my earliest games, I think on Vanilla, I sent a huge expeditionary force, captured a city, tried to move on... but my force was bombed so heavily that despite it's size I had to retreat it. I wound up sending a second expeditionary force to force a separate landing, when the AI divided its airforce both my armies were able to advance.

 

[Willem]

In Alpha Centauri, gaining air power can help you a lot. Your air units are really really powerful units which can destroy an enemy totally. Even in CIV2 air power meant something! If there exists just ONE reason for releasing next version of this game, it will be redesigning air units and air combat!

Airpower in Alpha Centauri was way to powerful. Once you got a Chopper there was no stopping you. and the AI was clueless as to how to use any of the air units effectively. I personally prefer the way it is now.

 

[Blackbird_SR-71]

Man get Conquest. I was playing a game today and I had a huge airforce and i kicked ass with them. i just bombed the hell out of all the AI cities and just came with one land unit and captured many cities without casualties. Without the air units my campaign would have resulted in chaos and casualties. if you use your air units right they can be incredibally powerful to the point you need just a moderate ground force and a huge air force to destroy your enemies easily.

 

[The Omega]

The problem isn't teh bombers, it's teh random-nmber-generator being evil again, and making you're bombing runs fail. The bwest way to counter this is with 50+ bombers in an airfeild filled with jet-figheters and mobile SAMS.

 

[cpikey316_]

In my first conquests game i got flight before everyone else and was not surprised to have no bombers shot down. In my 2nd(current) game ive only had 1 shot down. Whereas when playing vanilla i was lucky to survive 1 in 10 bombing raids. have they changed this? although saying that in conquests im talking about bombers\fighters compared to steath bombers\jet fighters in Vanilla ( i havent been able to get to stealth yet in conquests )

 

[homeyg]

Air units are a requirement in my militaries. Why? Once the AI gets bombers, you'll wish you had built some fighters previously.

 

[blackhalo14]

In my current game, I have almost 100 bombers, and I don't even have to attack the cities I want to take with land units, because my bombers always kill the defenders. And yes, they are GREAT for defending your territory. I never have to use my land units for that either. My bombers always kill the invaders before they reach the cities. I only have like, maybe 50 fighters, and I place them on the bordering cities and use air superiority, that always keeps the other bombers and fighters out.

 

[Bluemofia]

in the WWII in the Pacific conquest on sid as china, the Japanese have a tendency to completely and totally vaporize my airforce within 5 turns. I just can't build them fast enough, so I concentrate on artillery to redline them. in other games, air power is very important. for the flak things, did you put enough in 1 tile? or is it just 1 per tile?

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

4 AA units are the maximum. Anything above isn't considered.
And, why do you loose planes in WW2? You start with an airfield, with a Fighter already stationed there. Set that one to Air Superiority, and move all other planes there in turn 1. If you keep them in cities, well, then you gonna loose them.

 

[wit>trope]

So 4 Anti-aircraft are the maximum in the regular game or just in the WW2 scenario?

 

[rajwhitehall]

Man get Conquest. I was playing a game today and I had a huge airforce and i kicked ass with them. i just bombed the hell out of all the AI cities and just came with one land unit and captured many cities without casualties. Without the air units my campaign would have resulted in chaos and casualties. if you use your air units right they can be incredibally powerful to the point you need just a moderate ground force and a huge air force to destroy your enemies easily.

This sounds like the Air Force's imagination of how powerful Air Forces are. The reality is, conventional air power has severe limitations. Therefore, I like the Civ3 Air-ground unit interaction.