Why Are Praets The Best?

[Civman33]

Why are Praetorians said to be best unit in all of the game? I mean, look at this graph below

2 Jaguars vs. 1 Praetorian:


Jaguar 1: 5.00 Odds. Praet: 8.00 Odds.
The Jaguar may lose, but it is likely that 2/3 guys in the Praetorian guild would be killed.

Likely odds for the next:

Jaguar 2: 5.00 odds. Praet: something around 3.25 odds.

The Jaguar is likely to win. If the Praet wins than it would be a tough nut to crack.

 

[Joshua368]

Because two jaguars costs 25 more hammers and twice the upkeep as a single praet?

I mean what if the person brings in reinforcements like 8 - 10 praets, mixed with a few axes maybe.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Why are Praetorians said to be best unit in all of the game? I mean, look at this graph below

2 Jaguars vs. 1 Praetorian:


Jaguar 1: 5.00 Odds. Praet: 8.00 Odds.
The Jaguar may lose, but it is likely that 2/3 guys in the Praetorian guild would be killed.

Likely odds for the next:

Jaguar 2: 5.00 odds. Praet: something around 3.25 odds.

The Jaguar is likely to win. If the Praet wins than it would be a tough nut to crack.

What are you trying to demonstrate?

You do understand don't you that the attacker to defender ratio displayed in game (A : D) eg. praet vs jaguar would be (8:5), is not directly the odds for the battle outcome. Combat is much more complicated, and a ratio that great actually gives very favourable odds to the attacker. If you want the long explanation, see Arathorn's Combat Explained thread.

 

[Bushface]

It's a question of bangs per buck. Praets come out better than other units in their era.
And it's silly to compare two units against one. It ought to be possible to beat a single praet with, say, 20 warriors, just as I once tested warriors against a tank (or was it a Modern Armour?); the warriors won, but it took 154 of them attacking in the same turn to do it, and surely nobody would say that this demonstrated that a warrior is stronger than a tank. Didn't try with a spearman, though !

 

[deanej]

And praets are one of the longest lived units in the game. The can slaughter archers even without any siege units for most cities and are even effective city attackers against longbows (with siege) especially when promoted. Ever play the earth18civs map as Rome?

 

[Willem]

And it's silly to compare two units against one.

Yeah really. If it takes two units of a corresponding type to defeat just the one, then clearly they really are superior. Only a one on one comparison would be valid. And there's no unit that can go toe to toe with a Praet until Maceman come around.

 

[Joshua368]

Yeah really. If it takes two units of a corresponding type to defeat just the one, then clearly they really are superior. Only a one on one comparison would be valid. And there's no unit that can go toe to toe with a Praet until Maceman come around.

As someone who has had to fight against the stupid Julius AI multiple times, I can tell you that axes hold up agianst praets decent enough. I don't think its 50/50 odds but they can fend them off.

Praets are still insanely powerful though.

 

[Fei Kelei]

Crossbows can do the job too, and of course elephants have the same base strength if you have them, so that's two more possible counters to praets that you can get before macemen. But there's still a lot of time after Iron Working to do a lot of damage before those two show up. The AI isn't smart enough to build a lot of shock axes like a human player would when going against Rome.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

Ever play the earth18civs map as Rome?

That does it because the Dog Warriors are on another landmass

 

[pianoman1242]

native america isn't even on earth 18 civs

 

[CossackProblem]

Going by some people, their weakness is that they can get you too big of an empire too fast.

 

[AfterShafter]

I don't think they're that great. Good UU, but overrated in my eyes. People blow them out of proportion because the AI is stupid... But personally, I'd take either of the Chariot UU's over them.

 

[LegionSteve]

Ever play the earth18civs map as Rome?

Yeah once and it's ridiculous. Easy as 2 or 3 levels below what you normally play. Wiped out France and Spain and took Berlin very early. Can't remember exactly what my tech path was after that but I think I beelined steel and then went for military science. At one point I was churning out CR3 Praets every turn and immediately upgrading them to grenadiers. I had so much money by then it didn't matter and together with the cannons they wiped out anything in my way.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

As someone who has had to fight against the stupid Julius AI multiple times, I can tell you that axes hold up agianst praets decent enough. I don't think its 50/50 odds but they can fend them off.

Praets are still insanely powerful though.

AGG axes win with shock.

Also, once cats roll around the difference in fighting ability between axes and prats is marginal in a field fight between the two.

Attacking rome with iron inside its borders early on isn't generally recommended.

 

[Kiwi Tyrant]

That does it because the Dog Warriors are on another landmass

...and they cost 35 vs 45 for Prat's, and they don't require any resources to build!

 

[Willem]

I don't think its 50/50 odds but they can fend them off.

Not quite. Without promotions, Axes start at 5 and get a 50% bonus against melee for a total of 7.5. Praets start at 8 so they have a slight advantage. The right promotions can tipthe balance but with just the plain unit, the Praet should win most of the battles.

 

[Joshua368]

Not quite. Without promotions, Axes start at 5 and get a 50% bonus against melee for a total of 7.5. Praets start at 8 so they have a slight advantage. The right promotions can tipthe balance but with just the plain unit, the Praet should win most of the battles.

Yeah I know it's not an even battle (in fact I said so in the quote you posted) but praets are far from invincible and can be brought down just fine.

Of course every other classical unit short of elephants and catapults will completely crumple beneath them.

 

[deanej]

If they were invincible I'm sure they would have been nerfed by now. I'm surprised they haven't been, actually.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Not quite. Without promotions, Axes start at 5 and get a 50% bonus against melee for a total of 7.5. Praets start at 8 so they have a slight advantage. The right promotions can tipthe balance but with just the plain unit, the Praet should win most of the battles.

A combat 1 promotion on the axe is sufficient to tip the ratio in its favour if it attackes the praet, but give even odds if being attacked by the praet.

5.5:5.33 if attacking praet, and 8:8 if defending against praet.

The shock promotion then easily puts everything in axe's favour.

Willem, small note, but keep in mind situational modifiers (eg. +50% vs. melee) are always attached to the defender so in your example you are really making the assumption that the axe is defending, but you did not state this.

 

[Agent327]

Why are Praetorians said to be best unit in all of the game?

They aren't - they should be called Legionaries.