Why are these words offensive?

[Loaf Warden]

I hope this thread will not be closed, as it is not an attempt at drawing flames toward anyone, but is rather an honest attempt to understand what about these words has changed them from 'acceptable' to 'objectionable'.

The words I refer to are 'Oriental' and 'Chinaman'.

'Oriental' simply comes from a Latin word for 'east'. No one objects when people from China, Japan, Korea, etc. are called 'Easterners'. Why is the Germanic version acceptable when the Latinate version is now offensive? For my part, as an American of European extraction, I am very much a Westerner, and if someone called me an Occidental, I really couldn't see getting upset about it. And this doesn't just refer to the people, either. You never hear anyone saying 'the Orient' or 'Oriental cooking' anymore. I'd suggest that it has something to do with an abandonment of the old Eurocentric view that saw anything east of Europe as the East, East with a capital E . . . except that those regions are still referred to as the East. East Asia itself is not often called 'the Far East' anymore, but I don't know anyone who ever calls the Middle East anything except the Middle East. And while not many people, perhaps, call East Asians 'Easterners', as I already noted at least no one finds the word offensive.

As for 'Chinaman', I don't understand why this is a derogatory term now, either. It seems as good a term as any for a grown Chinese man, and would fit right in alongside other non-offensive terms like 'Englishman', 'Irishman', 'Scotsman', and 'Frenchman'. Again, while 'Alaskaman' is not a word, if someone started using such a word and addressed me as such, I certainly wouldn't be offended. While 'Chinaman', a word very much on the same model, is considered degrading now. But I honestly don't understand how it degrades a grown man who comes from China to call him that. It seems like a purely descriptive term to me.

So if anyone has any ideas on how or why these once-acceptable words are now treated as though they were racial slurs, I'd be quite curious to hear them.

 

[IceBlaZe]

Oriental is considered offensive?
I never knew that...

 

[Riesstiu IV]

Oriental is not an offensive term as far as I know, and I don't think Chinaman is either. I've never met an east asian person offended by those terms.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

I say Oriental all the time. If any Oriental people I know are offended by my usage of the word, they have not made it known to me.

 

[luiz]

Oriental is offensive? God, in some years we all will have to walk around with a book of "allowed and not allowed" words.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

These words are not offensive but they are more often used in an offensive context. I wouldn't hesitate to use Oriental - I prefer Chinese to Chinaman, just as I prefer French to Frenchman and Scottish to Scotsman.

I think the real shadow over these terms is that they originated at around the same period, and in the same literature, as race-words that are now definitely taboo - "Kanaka", for instance.

This must be a touchy issue in Alaska... I wonder what you call Native Americans there. Aleutians?

 

[mayakovsky]

I don't know why it's considered offensive but it is incorrect to call someone 'oriental'. Oriental is supposed to be used to describe things. Such as oriental rug, oriental food and so on. When describing people the correct term is Asian.

 

[onejayhawk]

Offense is in pidgeonholing a person into a stereotype. As ethnic epithets go, these are inoffensive, though "chinaman" is dated.

J

 

[Laughing Gull]

Originally posted by mayakovsky
I don't know why it's considered offensive but it is incorrect to call someone 'oriental'. Oriental is supposed to be used to describe things. Such as oriental rug, oriental food and so on. When describing people the correct term is Asian.

doesn't that seem a little vague? Someone from Iran could be considdered Asian, too.

 

[Loaf Warden]

Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
This must be a touchy issue in Alaska... I wonder what you call Native Americans there. Aleutians?

The most common term is 'Native Alaskans' or 'Alaska Natives', though 'Indian' has still not completely disappeared. 'Aleut' (a-lee-oot) is one of the Native groups, but 'Aleutian' (a-loo-shen) is an island chain. I have been told that the Aleut themselves don't like that word, since it's Russian rather than Native. The word 'Eskimo' is pretty much gone; to use it around most people is to designate yourself as an insensitive, ignorant clod.

 

[Loaf Warden]

Originally posted by Laughing Gull
doesn't that seem a little vague? Someone from Iran could be considdered Asian, too.

Which is why I typically say 'East Asian' if I need to exclude the regions west of India. The word 'Oriental' used to do just fine for that, but it seems like, in some places at least, the word is now considered degrading.

 

[Laughing Gull]

if someone is offended by my use of the word Oriental, it is their problem, not mine.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

I have met plenty of Asians who find the word oriental offensive. Especially educated ones. Strangely many people I have met from the east coast were unaware of it. Its not really considered pc to call Asians Oriental. The confusion comes from the fact that it was used both legitimately and disrespectfully in the past and because many Asians don't want to recognize their general category of Asian as Africans and Europeans etc usuallly do. Most people I know on the west coast consider the word a little outdated and crack a laugh when people use it.

 

[Moonsinger]

I think it realy depends on your tone of voice. If you are offensive, it doesn't matter what word you use, people would be offensive. If you have a lovable voice and have no intention of insulting people, even if you accidentally say the wrong word, people would soon to realize that you didn't mean what you said and not making a big deal out of it. IMO, your character counts a lot more than the your vocabulary.

 

[NeonInfusion]

I don't see why "oriental" is offensive. It just means that it's from the Orient.

The way I see it, the only way "Chinaman" could be "offensive" is if you called someone who was NOT from China that.

 

[The Yankee]

Especially since so many people confuse people from China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, etc.

I personally use Asian unless I know the specific nationality. Even then, I err on the side of caution (read: Asian).

 

[Mescalhead]

First off, I don't know why words are offensive, PERIOD! There is no excuse for being that childish.

With that said, there are some words where I cannot begin to fathom the reason why they are considered offensive. Why is "Paki" offensive? It is the shortened version of Pakistani. If someone calls me a Yank, that is fine. I've been called a Gringo with no malisciousness. Didn't care. Though, historically most people of my race have fallen victims to people of the same race, so...

I guess I am a non-racist, but callous white middle class American hetero-sexual male, i.e. "The Man".

The moral of the story is, if your race is truly oppressed or threatened by the "majority race", then words are the least of your problems. Otherwise, get off of your ego trip. No race or group is collectively innocent and deserving of deference.

And if someone wants to generalize an ethnic group, why do you care about their opinion? That seems to be your problem at that point.

 

[andrewgprv]

I have met Asians that are offended by refering to them as oriental.

For me it's simple if someone is offended I will attempt not to offend them. It's common curtosy.

 

[Enemy Ace]

Apparently "Jap" is offensive, as well.

 

[WillJ]

I once said "oriental" in front of my mom, and she told me not to say that; it's offesive. Never heard that before, and I've never heard it again.

I guess it's offensive for the same reason "******" is offensive: It's a term that was used back when many of the people who used it were against those people/cultures. Not much of a reason, especially because of what Moonsinger said, but I guess we might as well be courteous...

And "Chinaman" (which I've never heard before) may or may not be offensive, but one thing's for sure: It's stupid. It's like something a three-year old would say. "Hey, Mr. Americaman!" Uh, no. Chineseman, on the other hand, is okay IMO... Just like Frenchman or Englishman. (Notice we don't say Franceman or Englandman.)