The 2nd Trump Assassination Attempt, mid-September 2024

[Fippy]

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/03/politics/cnn-poll-trump-biden-election-concede/index.html

only about half of registered voters see Trump’s false claims that he won the 2020 presidential election as a reason to vote against him in 2024.

Much too forgiving.

A 78% majority of Americans say they think that President Joe Biden will accept the results and concede if he loses the election this November.

By now outdated..but only 78%?
No chance that Biden wouldn't have conceded - 0%

Trump created a cult imo, and him being allowed to run for president again is already a big headache.
Some things that once were like written in stone have already been undermined..with possibly long-term damage taken.

 

[choxorn]

I really hate it when these undemocratic leaders get voted in and then voted out again.

Undemocratic leaders win elections all the time. Sometimes, like Hitler, they get in and then stop having (fair) elections. Other times, like Trump or Bolsonaro, they get in, try to dismantle the system, fail, and then get voted out again, but there's never any guarantee that you'll be able to beat them like that once they gain power.

 

[Strong Reaction]

Trump never got particularly far in doing so besides a lot of moaning and groaning on his end. (Did anyone really obey his commands then in re overturning election results? I admit I wasn't following much news then).
So the idea of him being a "threat" in the sense that the (now) two guys who tried to shoot him posed a threat, or the way a country might put more troops on its border against another is a threat, is just a lot of hot air to me...

You haphazardly dismiss a coup attempt because he "never got far in doing so" and well no one listened to him regarding overturning the election result. So if someone arranges, organizes and plots a murder that same person is not subject to prosecution if the attempt fails? According to a recent poll if Trump loses 14% would take action to overturn the election and 46% would not accept the result. Id say his coup attempt and election denial have been largely successful in undermining public confidence in the election process. I think you casually dismiss these things because it did not affect your vote and you want trump as president or you are completely indifferent as to who gets elected (which I don't think is the case). Perhaps you just want an autocracy instead of a democracy?

Some"hot air"

A survey from the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice at New York University released in May found that 36% of local election officials experienced harassment or abuse, and 16% were threatened.

Election workers are being bombarded with death threats, the U.S. government says
Government employees are being bombarded with threats even in normally quiet periods between elections, secretaries of state and experts warn. Some point to former President Donald Trump and his allies repeatedly and falsely claiming the 2020 election was stolen and spreading conspiracy theories about election workers. Experts fear the 2024 election could be worse and want the Justice Department to do more to protect election workers.
Lastly, I never tried to compare the threat that an assassin poses to DJT vs. DJT being a threat to democracy, you did. I never said that they are equal.

I suppose the above is relevant since it eludes to the idea that what you say matters i.e. trump green lighting people for violence.

14% of Republicans would 'take action to overturn' the election if Trump loses, study finds

Nearly half of Republicans and a quarter of Democrats said they will not accept election results if their candidate loses.

www.aol.com

Election workers are being bombarded with death threats, the U.S. government says

Some point to former President Donald Trump and his allies repeatedly and falsely claiming the 2020 election was stolen and spreading conspiracy theories about election workers.

www.pbs.org

 

[choxorn]

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

You haphazardly dismiss a coup attempt because he "never got far in doing so" and well no one listened to him regarding overturning the election result.

Yeah I gladly blow it off because you're overreacting. Trump talking to Pence and being ignored and nothing coming out of it is not "a coup attempt"--such things usually involved military takeovers of the various arms of the state like what the Bolsheviks did so it cannot function--it's just a dumb pointless conversation. One of very many I'm sure Trump's had while in office. But I tend to subscribe to the principal of don't attribute to evil what you can't to stupidity. And Trump just says a lot of stupid stuff which anyone can dismiss as not worth anyone's time, and have done so numerous times, apparently.

Anyway this is so far off the beaten path of the thread its not even funny so I'm done with it.

 

[Voidwalkin]

I sometimes wonder, if Trump were more of a reader, if he migntn't have noticed that most authoritarians who successfully overthrow democracy usually keep a paramilitary force whose loyalties they personally command wholly.

His intentions were fairly clear. His chosen organizational technique was to basically call a mob assembly together. This actually got stunningly close. I'd really not expected a mob would encounter so little resistance. Democracy had few defenders.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Trump talking to Pence and being ignored and nothing coming out of it is not "a coup attempt"--such things usually involved military takeovers of the various arms of the state like what the Bolsheviks did so it cannot function--it's just a dumb pointless conversation.

It absolutely was a coup attempt. Failed coup attempts are still coup attempts. Keeping Trump in office despite the fact that he was not the elected president was the central purpose of the whole coordinated activity. We are lucky that it failed, but it was without question an attempt to subvert the election results and keep Trump in office.

Since military involvement is important to your definition, I even believe there was a plan to get the military involved. Not to carry out the coup, per se, but in the following way that would have helped lead to the intended result.

What Trump wanted was resistance from the left that would manifest itself in a fire-fight. At that point, he could declare martial law and bring in the military to "get things under control" and "sort things out." Once he had done that, he would just have said, "Someone needs to determine why there is so much confusion about these election results. I'll just stay in office until we've got it all sorted out." And at that point, who is there to say him nay? and how?

People need to be sized up as a threat, before they successfully carry out the threatened action. Not much can be done after the fact.

Trump has no respect for our democratic process. And he will stop at nothing to seize power.

 

[Strong Reaction]

Yeah I gladly blow it off because you're overreacting. Trump talking to Pence and being ignored and nothing coming out of it is not "a coup attempt"--such things usually involved military takeovers of the various arms of the state like what the Bolsheviks did so it cannot function--it's just a dumb pointless conversation. One of very many I'm sure Trump's had while in office. But I tend to subscribe to the principal of don't attribute to evil what you can't to stupidity. And Trump just says a lot of stupid stuff which anyone can dismiss as not worth anyone's time, and have done so numerous times, apparently.

Anyway this is so far off the beaten path of the thread its not even funny so I'm done with it.

Being dismissive is not really an argument, you are distilling January 6 into a conversation with Pence and that's not what happened. It was actually planned and nurtured well before the date. Coup: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group. Merriam Websters January 6 fits that description. Trump uses the same mechanic you are using , something happens and then he tells you that what you just saw is not the truth. Either you believe what your saying or you are stuck in willing denial. Because Trump does and says stupid things does not absolve him from being dangerous. I think the danger of Trump is his willingness to do nearly anything in order to stay in power, break any rule,standard or tradition etc.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Trump was not just Mr. Magoo an Jan 6th.

Spoiler Jan 6 coup attempt timeline (sort of) :

11/4/20 Former Energy Secretary Rick Perry and Donald Trump Jr. text Mark Meadows on overturning the election. (Source: CNN)
11/6/20 Rep. Biggs (R-Ariz.) texts a plan to Meadows to reverse election results in favor of Trump. (Source: CNN)
11/14/20 Thousands of President Trump supporters rally in Washington, D.C., asserting that the election results are fraudulent. Violent clashes ensue between protesters, counter-protesters, and police. Source: NPR.
12/1/20 Barr announces there is no widespread election fraud. (Source: Associated Press (12/1/20)
12/7/2020 Stop the steal emerges
12/21/20 A group of congressional republicans meet with Trump in the White House to discuss January 6th strategy. (Source: Politico)
12/27/20 Trump calls Rosen twice, Donoghue joined the second call, during Trump went on in length about election fraud. Rosen at one point told the President the DOJ "can't and won't just flip a switch and change the election." (Source: Senate Judiciary)
12/30/20 Trump and Steve Bannon speak by phone, during which Bannon tells the President to "focus on January 6." (Source: Woodward and Costa, Peril)
12/30/30 MPD estimates there will be 23 protest groups and 25,550 protestors, and shares this information with the DCNG. The DHS estimates there will be 21 protest groups and 2,000 protestors, and shares this information with the Army Operations Center. (Source: DOD OIG)
1/5/20 Vice President Pence meets with President Trump in the Oval Office. During the meeting, President Trump pressures Pence to not certify the election results, and Pence refuses his offer. (Source: Woodward and Costa, Peril)
1/5/20 The night before January 6, President Trump made numerous calls to the Willard Hotel where he spoke to Giuliani, Eastman, Epshteyn, and Bannon, recounting his Oval Office meeting with Pence and seeking further ways to stop the joint session from certifying Biden's victory. (Source: The Guardian)
1/5/21 Meadows email, later released to the House Select committee, says the National Guard would "protect pro Trump people." (Source: CNN)

The Capitol Riot: A Chronology | National Security Archive

Washington, D.C., January 6, 2022 - The National Security Archive marks the one-year anniversary of the assault on the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021, with a meticulously researched timeline of the day's events. The chronology, which will serve as an important tool for investigators...

nsarchive.gwu.edu

And the national guard was called in to restore order smells like a coup to me.

Anyway your right this is off the beaten path and does not have much to do with the assassination thread.

 

[Zardnaar]

when would have been the proper time to not use provocative language?

1992

 

[Gori the Grey]

No one has had an explicit "Chickens come home to roost" moment, not yet at least

It still holds back a little with that opening qualification of the final sentence, but here's Jamelle Bouie from this morning's NYT:

But there is only one politician who has placed violence at the center of his movement. Only one politician who is running for president on a promise of "retribution." Only one politician who has promised that if he is elected again, he will unleash the state against a wide array of disfavored groups.

Of course, Trump is not responsible for the attempts on his life, but if American politics is more violent than it has been, it's hard not to notice that he tilled the soil that helped make it so.

 

[Kaitzilla]

In case anyone was wondering if the guy really was going to murder Trump instead of just admire him through his rifle scope after waiting in the bushes for 12 hours, the DOJ has released a note written by the guy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1838211270052307059

Ryan Routh is flat broke, so the $150,000 bounty is a lie.

Routh told the court Monday he earns a monthly income of $3,000 and owns two trucks, each worth around $1,000, in Hawaii. But he owns no real estate and has "zero" savings, he said. He also has a 25-year-old son, he said

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/23/politics/ryan-wesley-routh-trump-assassination-attempt-letter/index.html

The man who authorities say sat with a rifle in the trees where Donald Trump was golfing earlier this month in West Palm Beach, Florida, previously wrote a letter stating “this was an assassination attempt on Donald Trump,” according to a new filing Monday by federal prosecutors.

In a court hearing, prosecutors also said they plan to charge Ryan Wesley Routh with attempting to assassinate Trump, and a federal magistrate judge ordered Routh to remain detained pending further proceedings.

 

[Sommerswerd]

It still holds back a little with that opening qualification of the final sentence, but here's Jamelle Bouie from this morning's NYT:

This line especially

it's hard not to notice that he tilled the soil that helped make it so.

is about as close to "reap what you sow" as he could get and I believe that was intentional.

In case anyone was wondering if the guy really was going to murder Trump instead of just admire him through his rifle scope after waiting in the bushes for 12 hours, the DOJ has released a note written by the guy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1838211270052307059

Ryan Routh is flat broke, so the $150,000 bounty is a lie.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/23/politics/ryan-wesley-routh-trump-assassination-attempt-letter/index.html

That letter is a super convenient piece of evidence, but whatever, the guy was obviously an incompetent wannabe assassin and a lunatic. They didn't need this letter to prove it.

Undemocratic leaders win elections all the time. Sometimes, like Hitler, they get in and then stop having (fair) elections.

Hitler wasn't elected IIRC. He became a political party leader, attempted a coup and failed, resulting in his imprisonment (when he wrote Mein Kampf). Once released, he ran for President, lost the election, but then used his fame and popularity to strongarm the then President into appointing him as Chancellor. Once he was Chancellor, the President died and he then dissolved/merged the office of Presidency into the Chancellorship, making himself Fuhrer, the dictator of the country.

 

[Lexicus]

Hitler wasn't elected IIRC. He became a political party leader, attempted a coup and failed, resulting in his imprisonment (when he wrote Mein Kampf). Once released, he ran for President, lost the election, but the used his fame and popularity to strongarm the then President into appointing him as Chancellor. Once he was Chancellor, the President died and he then dissolved/merged the office of Presidency into the Chancellorship, making himself Fuhrer, the dictator of the country.

Correct, and at the time Germany's mainstream conservatives thought they could use him to own the libs

 

[Gori the Grey]

I like a would-be assassin calling on people to be "kind, caring and selfless."

 

[choxorn]

Hitler wasn't elected IIRC. He became a political party leader, attempted a coup and failed, resulting in his imprisonment (when he wrote Mein Kampf). Once released, he ran for President, lost the election, but the used his fame and popularity to strongarm the then President into appointing him as Chancellor. Once he was Chancellor, the President died and he then dissolved/merged the office of Presidency into the Chancellorship, making himself Fuhrer, the dictator of the country.

Well, yes and no. He was a leader of the Nazi Party but held no office at the time, and while he didn't win the election for president the Nazis did win the plurality of seats in the two elections before they took full power.

 

[uppi]

Hitler wasn't elected IIRC. He became a political party leader, attempted a coup and failed, resulting in his imprisonment (when he wrote Mein Kampf). Once released, he ran for President, lost the election, but the used his fame and popularity to strongarm the then President into appointing him as Chancellor. Once he was Chancellor, the President died and he then dissolved/merged the office of Presidency into the Chancellorship, making himself Fuhrer, the dictator of the country.

He was not directly elected, but German Chancellors have never been directly elected. As the leader of the party with the most votes he had a democratically legitimate claim to the job. If he had been the leader of a less extremist party, his appointment would have been the obvious consequence of the last two elections.

 

[Akka]

Yeah I gladly blow it off because you're overreacting. Trump talking to Pence and being ignored and nothing coming out of it is not "a coup attempt"--such things usually involved military takeovers of the various arms of the state like what the Bolsheviks did so it cannot function--it's just a dumb pointless conversation. One of very many I'm sure Trump's had while in office. But I tend to subscribe to the principal of don't attribute to evil what you can't to stupidity. And Trump just says a lot of stupid stuff which anyone can dismiss as not worth anyone's time, and have done so numerous times, apparently.

That's the definition of "attempt" vs "success". Trump was simply (thanksfully) as incompetent at making a coup as he was at basically everything but being a cult leader. This doesn't change the fact he tried to overturn the election results.
This is the one highest cardinal sin in democracy - refusing to play by the rules of democracy.
And it's the one crime that should never be let go nor accepted nor tolerated, because it's the absolute fundamental requirement to keep democracy alive.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Routh told the court Monday he earns a monthly income of $3,000 and owns two trucks, each worth around $1,000, in Hawaii. But he owns no real estate and has "zero" savings, he said. He also has a 25-year-old son, he said

The 25 year old son has now been arrested.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/24/politics/oran-routh-child-pornography/index.html

According to the complaint, FBI agents were searching Oran Routh’s residence and devices on September 21, days after his father was arrested, “in connection with an investigation unrelated to child exploitation.”

A source familiar with the investigation tells CNN the search was conducted in relation to the investigation of Ryan Wesley Routh.

Investigators found “hundreds of child pornography files” on an SD card from one of Oran Routh’s devices, court documents say. Agents also uncovered chats on devices they say belong to Oran Routh with an individual advertising cloud storage links for sale which included child exploitation content.

Thanks dad!

Some more detailed info on the assassin father.

Suspect in Apparent Trump Assassination Plot Crusaded for Many Causes

Interviews, records and a self-aggrandizing book suggest that Ryan Routh, a peripatetic builder, saw himself as an influential participant in momentous world events.

www.nytimes.com

This year, Mr. Routh and his daughter sold their “dilapidated” home in Greensboro for about $175,000, said David Hagaman, a real estate agent who helped his business associate buy the property.

...
...
...

But one former Afghan soldier, who was one of the first refugees that Mr. Routh had tried to help, stayed in touch until just days before Mr. Routh’s arrest in Florida on Sunday. The soldier, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was afraid of reprisals, said that Mr. Routh was living out of the back of his car. In a WhatsApp message to the soldier, Mr. Routh sent a picture of his trunk filled with clothes and sleeping items, with the caption “my house.”

He also sent the soldier a picture of his bank account: It only had $68 left.

Still, the soldier said that just days before he was arrested, Mr. Routh was still sending money to a friend, an Afghan commando, who was stuck in Kenya and trying to get to Ukraine.

What happened to the $175000?
Did the daughter take it all?
Did he spend it all to go to Ukraine for many months?
Did he set it aside to pay the 150k bounty to kill Trump?

All kinds of rumours swirl around this guy.
Not much juice left in this story though.

Some Republicans are furious with the Department of Justice for releasing the call to kill Trump for a $150000 reward.

Ex-AG Barr joins criticism of DOJ's release of Trump bounty letter: 'No apparent justification'

"It served no purpose other than to risk inciting further violence," former Attorney General William Barr said.

justthenews.com

Barr, who served as attorney general during the Trump administration, blasted the DOJ for releasing the letter.

"I was dumbfounded that the DOJ made public this morning the contents of the letter that, Ryan Routh, left with an acquaintance prior to the attempted assassination of former President Trump," Barr told Fox News on Monday.

"The letter calls on people to ‘finish the job’ of killing President Trump, attempts to rouse people in incendiary terms to do so, and offers $150,000 to anyone who succeeds," he continued. "There was no apparent justification for releasing this information at this stage."

He added that the "DOJ had more than enough evidence to have Routh detained pending trial, without publicizing these details."

"Even if DOJ thought it important to provide the letter to the court, it could have redacted inflammatory material or arranged to have the letter submitted under seal," Barr said. "It was rash to put out this letter in the midst of an election during which two attempts on the life of President Trump had been made."

"It served no purpose other than to risk inciting further violence," he remarked.

Many manifestos and letters are kept secret if they endanger people for various reasons.
That Nashville shooter had one a few years back and it was kept secret.

 

[Kaitzilla]

All kinds of rumours swirl around this guy.
Not much juice left in this story though.

Arggggggg, are you kidding me?!

Aileen Cannon overseeing Ryan Routh case "remarkable coincidence"—lawyer

The judge accused of favoritism toward Donald Trump will oversee the case of a man who allegedly tried to kill the ex-president.

www.newsweek.com

Ty Cobb, former assistant U.S. attorney in Maryland and a one-time White House lawyer in the Trump administration, said that Cannon's appointment to the Routh case is "a remarkable coincidence" and that "you can't make this up."

Ryan Routh's court case was randomly assigned to ...... Judge Aileen Cannon.

 

[Sommerswerd]

On a somewhat related note...

Shots fired into Kamala Harris’ Arizona campaign office, cops investigating: ‘Raises concerns’​

Shots were fired at Vice President Kamala Harris’ campaign office in Arizona, police said — just over a week after a second assassination attempt against former President Donald Trump.

Damage from several bullets, fired sometime after midnight Monday, was discovered at the Democratic National Committee campaign office near Southern Avenue and Priest Drive in Tempe, the Tempe Police Department told The Post.

https://nypost.com/2024/09/24/us-ne...gn-office-cops-investigating-raises-concerns/

It seems a little odd that this is not getting more coverage... maybe they are trying to avoid encouraging copycat shooters... Or maybe they want to get more information on the shooter(s) before they start making statements about it.