Why aren't there more cultural civs released?

[insaneweasel]

Almost a year into the game, there have been a lot of civs released, but there are still very few that excel at culture. Only Siam, Egypt and the Aztecs have large advantages in cultural games.

Since cultural victories have gotten harder (and more pointless) since the patch, I was hoping Korea would be a culture civ...no luck, obviously.

So what should firaxis do to make up for this?

 

[Villager720]

I always though France and Polynesia were pretty cultural too.

 

[stealth_nsk]

So, 5 cultural civs against only 3 science (Babylon, Korea and India).

 

[Thyrwyn]

Greece and India do OK, too. Though I am curious as to why you feel cultural victories have become more "pointless"?

 

[ColinTH]

Though I am curious as to why you feel cultural victories have become more "pointless"?

I have had ten attempts at cultural victories post patch and have failed every time, this only makes me all the more determined to achieve one, so yes, I am also curious as to why they have become pointless?

To the op where did you get your three cultural civs from? Did you by any chance pull them out of a hat and got lucky with one? Like others have said you missed some of the major cultural civs form your list.

 

[Lose]

I have had ten attempts at cultural victories post patch and have failed every time, this only makes me all the more determined to achieve one, so yes, I am also curious as to why they have become pointless?

To the op where did you get your three cultural civs from? Did you by any chance pull them out of a hat and got lucky with one? Like others have said you missed some of the major cultural civs form your list.

what level are u playing on? cultural victory isnt that bad on (Emperor)

 

[ColinTH]

what level are u playing on? cultural victory isnt that bad on (Emperor)

The level we play at is not really the point here, we all have differing standards of play and we should be enjoying the challenge when the going gets tough. Fair play to you for winning on Emporer post patch.

 

[ShahJahanII]

I always though France and Polynesia were pretty cultural too.

Some civs are very cultural.
But you can play any civ culturally if you do it right.
Greece, Polynesia, France, Aztec, India, Egypt, Siam, even Rome.
If there were more cultural civs, there would be a thread somewhere called "Too many cultural civs" or "not enough military/science" civs.

 

[chazzycat]

Some civs are very cultural.
But you can play any civ culturally if you do it right.
Greece, Polynesia, France, Aztec, India, Egypt, Siam, even Rome.
If there were more cultural civs, there would be a thread somewhere called "Too many cultural civs" or "not enough military/science" civs.

Yup. Last culture victory for me was with Rome (on immortal). Their building advantage can be used to build culture buildings, and their military advantage can be used to create puppets.

Culture vic is alive & well post patch. I have also recently done it as Egypt with 1 city (no marble even)

 

[insaneweasel]

First of all, let me clarify what I meant in the OP: none of the civs that have been RELEASED have been geared towards cultural victories (not even Poly). I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear, but in my defense, I was groggy.

Greece and India do OK, too. Though I am curious as to why you feel cultural victories have become more "pointless"?

First, Greece and India aren't specially geared towards culture, though they are better at than, say, Japan or the Inca.

As for why I feel they are pointless, it takes too much time to fill out five trees.
All you do is click "next turn" 50-100 times. Even if someone DOWs you, you can defend easily.

UN or science is just as dull, BUT it doesn't take nearly as long.

To the op where did you get your three cultural civs from? Did you by any chance pull them out of a hat and got lucky with one? Like others have said you missed some of the major cultural civs form your list.

They are (in my opinion), the top three civs for culture. France, India, Greece and the others don't compare, as their UAs can be leveraged for other purposes AND they don't bring in as much culture.

However, I was talking about the DLC civs. These are Babylon and Korea (science), Polynesia and Spain (expansion), Denmark (war), and Inca (defense/war).

Out of the 6 or so released, none have any major advantages when going for culture (not even spain with el dorado). I'm not happy about that.

 

[chazzycat]

I get where you're coming from...they don't have the culture "flavor" if you will. I disagree on Polynesia though, they are really a hybrid exploration/culture civ in my view. They do have a unique improvement that gives culture after all, something unique to them. Actually with the recent changes to policy cost per city, an expansive culture win with Polynesia could be the single fastest culture win available....just depends on the map.

I wouldn't be too surprised if the Maya come out before too long as a culture flavored civ. That would be cool.

 

[awesome]

they gave korea an ability kind of close to what i was expecting for maya, so cultural probably would make sense now.

 

[Ranos]

However, I was talking about the DLC civs. These are Babylon and Korea (science), Polynesia and Spain (expansion), Denmark (war), and Inca (defense/war).

Out of the 6 or so released, none have any major advantages when going for culture (not even spain with el dorado). I'm not happy about that.

So you are complaining about non of them having a culture advantage. I don't see any with a diplomacy advantage either.

With the exception of india, there weren't any civs that had an advantage in science with the original release. And even with them, its now more difficult to get started due to the reduced happiness.

 

[Keejus]

Polynesia is an expansive cultural civ. That's cultural.

And the Aztecs were always a science civ, as far as I'm concerned. The culture you get from killing pales in comparison to the population you get from the Floating Gardens.

 

[Brichals]

Korea can be played culturally I guess if you go specialist heavy and settle a lot of Artists. Any civ that gains bonuses for settling can be used for a culture game. 5-6 cities running full artist slots with gardens, Hagia Sofia etc. will give you a lot of landmarks which could be a viable way of getting some science on the side for Korea.

 

[Revoran]

Culture UAs:

Aztecs (Sacrificial Captives)
France (Ancien Regime)

Culture bonus UBs:

India (Mughal Fort)
Egypt (Burial Tomb)
Siam (Wat)
Songhai (Mud Pyramid Mosque)

Culture bonus UIs

Polynesia (Moai, UI)

Indirect culture bonus via UA

Egypt (UA encourages wonder building, wonders add culture)
India (UA encourages less cities, less cities = more culture.)

 

[insaneweasel]

Culture UAs:

France (Ancien Regime)

Much better for expansion than culture. At the end of the game it likely means only one or two extra policies.

Culture bonus UBs:

India (Mughal Fort) Tiny bonus, AND castles are rarely built
Egypt (Burial Tomb) Only gives extra happiness
Songhai (Mud Pyramid Mosque) I think this is now worse for culture than the regular

Indirect culture bonus via UA

Egypt (UA encourages wonder building, wonders add culture)
India (UA encourages less cities, less cities = more culture.) India encourages more developed cities. It doesn't have any major advantages when going culture

Most of the aforementioned abilities are miniscule when it comes to culture games, where you need to build up thousands upon thousands of culture points.

 

[ShahJahanII]

Much better for expansion than culture. At the end of the game it likely means only one or two extra policies.









Most of the aforementioned abilities are miniscule when it comes to culture games, where you need to build up thousands upon thousands of culture points.

Thousands??????
What level are you playing on?

 

[Ranos]

France (Ancien Regime): Much better for expansion than culture. At the end of the game it likely means only one or two extra policies.

How is it better for expansion? Nothing in its UA or UU contribute to expansion. The only benefit is that you have that 2 extra culture per city so it offsets the increased cost per policy. That really doesn't matter much when you have a ton of cities.

Two culture per city with only a handful of cities is going to benefit greatly. From your first city alone and just assuming it takes 500 turns for a culture vic, thats 1000 extra culture from just the one city. Add in four or five more cities and thats more llike 3000-4000 extra culture. That may only be an extra couple of policies but it brings you that much closer to victory.

India (Mughal Fort) Tiny bonus, AND castles are rarely built

Again this gives you a similar bonus to France but not quite as early. You'll still get 2000+ culture. And one of the achievements is to get a cultural vic with India. Plus their UA allows them to have more pop and fewer cities. They can build wonders and cultural buildings faster and require less culture per policy.

And while it may be that "castles are rarely built," thats castles, not Mughal Forts. If I'm playing India and going for a cultural vic, I will build a Mughal Fort.

Songhai (Mud Pyramid Mosque) I think this is now worse for culture than the regular
Explain to me how this is worse than the regular? I'm assuming by regular you mean a Temple.
Temple: 150 , 2 , 3 .
Mud Pyramid Mosque: 150 , 0 , 4 .
So you gain 1 culture per turn and it costs 2 less gold per turn. This is worse how?

QUOTE=insaneweasel;10772408]India (UA encourages less cities, less cities = more culture.) India encourages more developed cities. It doesn't have any major advantages when going culture

How does this not have any major advantages? It not only encourages more developed cities, it also encourages fewer cities. Fewer cities = less culture perr policies = easier to get policies, expecially with a more developed city.

QUOTE=insaneweasel;10772408]Most of the aforementioned abilities are miniscule when it comes to culture games, where you need to build up thousands upon thousands of culture points.[/QUOTE]

Most, if not all, of the abilities are not extremely game changing, which is the point. If any ability changed the game in a major wya, that civ would be overpowered which would ruin the diversity of the game.

No matter how much you want it, they aren't going to make a civ that gives +50 per turn.

 

[Roxlimn]

insaneweasel:

My last five wins have all been cultural, largely as a default. Generally, I played to play, rather than aiming for a specific vic condition. If anything, the current Cultural Vic condition is a little too easy, and a little too Wonder-dependent. Oracle is must-have, Sistine is must-have, and so on.

What exactly, did you want Cultural play to involve?