Why can't I bomb tile improvements anymore?

[Xanikk999]

Oh no, not this cra* again.

I agree Civ 5 is suffering from many shortcomings, but frankly I am sick of every other thread being spammed with claims of "OmFG EveRY PROBleM iN ZHE GAMe is to BLAMe oN tHE GAME BEing StreamlineD FOR ZHE DiRTy MasseS CIV 5 SUUXXOORSS!!"!

Removing the tile bombardment option doesn't do anything to streamline the game, so that can't be the reason.

What you don't see the game is being simpler? Long time civ player here with his opinion:

Really its a simple fact. The vanilla pc games take away stuff the previous title gave you and in an effort to push out a product fast and save money they give you a skeleton product. Nowadays they charge you for previous content through expansion packs. Expansion packs now bring in some new things but mostly give you access to stuff you should of had in vanilla.

This is all the rage in recent years, civilization is not immune to the trend. Personally civ5 is inferior to civ4 BTS for this reason, it just has so much less depth. Oh and the AI is horrible and diplomacy might as well not even be in the game.

The Civ vets will stay with civ4 until civ5 is more polished and the fix the broken parts such as diplomacy and AI. The new demographic that civ5 was meant to capture can play this inferior successor.The game shouldn't have been shipped with these obvious flaws.

 

[AriochIV]

Tile bombardment in Civ IV wasn't overpowered at all, because a) it could be prevented with air defenses, and b) even without air defenses, it wasn't always successful.

I don't have a problem with preventing peacetime recon flights into territory in which you don't have Open Borders rights, but it's crazy not to be able to use aircraft for reconnaissance (especially since that was their original purpose).

 

[Abremms]

A rain of bombs resulting in a massive firestorm won't destroy a farm?

If anything, bombers should be more devastating against farms then other targets because the fire could spread much more easily on massive farmlands weak to fire.

In fact now that I think of it actual bombs might not even be needed, for all we know it could be enough to simply spray some sort of airborne toxic over the farmlands that kills the harvests.

It's not even about that. you wouldn't have to touch the fields. just hit the farmsteads. take out the machinery and the crop with rot in the fields. It would be quite easy for a flight of bombers to take out a lot of farmland, one bomb per homestead. take away a modern farmer's tractors (and myriad other machinery) and there is no crop.

a bit off topic, but there really is no reason we shouldn't be able to bomb tile improvements. I don't think its part of the "dumbing down" conspiracy, more likely it has something to do with balance. its bad enough with the AI pillages your strategic resources, what if they could just bomb them? you can't defend against that nearly so easily. even with mobile SAMs, chances are the bomber is still going to drop its payload.

 

[Xanikk999]

Tile bombardment in Civ IV wasn't overpowered at all, because a) it could be prevented with air defenses, and b) even without air defenses, it wasn't always successful.

I don't have a problem with preventing peacetime recon flights into territory in which you don't have Open Borders rights, but it's crazy not to be able to use aircraft for reconnaissance (especially since that was their original purpose).

This is just another example of something not developed in civ5 so they could rush the game out with minimal developing costs and charge us for it in an expansion if they ever do let us have this feature back.

 

[dexters]

Arguments about realism aside, preventing the all powerful ranged/bombard unit from bombarding tiles is a step forward conceptually for Civ.

It keeps bombard units in their place, as bombing units/cities. If you want to pillage, a tile, you send a unit to do the job.

This opens up the role of specialist units, like the paratroopers. In the past these units were not used very much because the same job could be done more cheaply with a plane or a ship on the coast.

It is actually quite interesting from a balance perspective.

 

[Justicex]

It's a little hard to rule when there's nothing left to rule over....

By this logic nukes should not be in the game either.

And not everyone wants to take over the civ that you are at war with, sometimes you just want it dead.

It is my personal preference, NOT a statement of something I like/dislike about the game. I do in fact, get a perverse pleasure of dropping nukes on someone's capitol simply because I'm an A-hole and I can

For me and the way I play, I can't justify razing something that I just spent 500 years and many units/resources to kick the tar out of. It so rocks to remind someone daily for eterninty that you whupped them good

All that I ask, is that you kneel.

 

[hardcore_gamer]

This opens up the role of specialist units, like the paratroopers. In the past these units were not used very much because the same job could be done more cheaply with a plane or a ship on the coast.

It is actually quite interesting from a balance perspective.

I don't really agree, because as far as I know (and please correct me if I am wrong) paratroopers still can't paradrop on their own and can only paradrop from cities which greatly limits their usefulness. In fact this was the very reason for why I almost never constructed them in Civ 4, why bother building an offensive unit that can't actually go on the offensive by itself?

 

[SerriaFox]

I found paratrooper range to small, they basic could land on the front, not behind it. And because there was no functioning ZOC, in civ 4, they didn't hamper the enemy at all. That why I only built then in very limited fashion to take small nearly undefended island cities if i didn't want find a transport.

In civ5 i have yet to play to the modern era in enough games to know.

 

[Warspite2]

In Civ 4 one of my fav tactics during the modern era was using airpower and naval power to bomb the living hell out of enemy civs and destroy all of their tile improvements with my bombers/aircraft and guided missiles thus causing famines among other things that damaged the enemy civ without having to resort to direct ground warfare. It was one of the things that made air power so useful and so important.

However, in Civ 5 this is for some reason no longer possible and aircraft as well as guided missiles can no longer attack tiles but only ground units, cities and other aircraft!

Why? Its not like this was invalid tactic or anything! I mean even the AI knew how to and did this every now and then so its not like it was an exploit!

I hope this ability gets added back later, and if not then I would like to know if there is some way to mod it in.

This is one of the things I do miss from the other Civ games. I did like how I could load up a couple of carriers with planes and park it off the coast of a continent overseas and bomb the hell out of their improvements. For example, land troops onshore, bomb the surrounding roads to delay the AI reinforcements trying to come in. Bomb this oil improvements and food, everything. Next thing you know the city starts to starve. The thing is, the AI would just rebuilt them so fast, sometimes it felt like a waste. Maybe that is why its not in Civ V.

 

[hardcore_gamer]

The thing is, the AI would just rebuilt them so fast, sometimes it felt like a waste. Maybe that is why its not in Civ V.

Rebuilding improvements takes much longer in Civ 5, even on the quick game speed. Plus you can't order more then just a single worker to rebuild/repair the same improvement. I for one never even bothered to attempt rebuilding any of the improvements the enemy pillaged from me during the wars until after the wars were over because trying to rebuild/repair them during the war took so long that I risked seeing my workers outright attacked before they could finish the rebuilding/repairing. So this really should not be a issue in Civ 5.

 

[Thormodr]

Maybe they took them out because they didn't want you blowing up Great person tile improvements or perhaps you getting yours blown up and getting frustrated about it. That might upset the mass market.

 

[Multiplicity]

I can see on one hand how they went away from tile bombardments. Bombers were mostly utilized to disable important infrastructure and military assets. Noting that, the design of only allowing bombers to attack cities is a bit too simple. I think it'd make far more sense if they were able to target -specific- buildings to cripple them (i.e. hydro plants, factories, etc).

 

[dexters]

I think I'd make is to city defense can go up in the hundreds during the industrial/modern era, and similar to the Civ4 defense % system, bombers' and ranged primary goal is to bring that value down.

Before you even start taking HP off cities.

Not sure how the AI will handle it though

 

[mrt144]

Arguments about realism aside, preventing the all powerful ranged/bombard unit from bombarding tiles is a step forward conceptually for Civ.

It keeps bombard units in their place, as bombing units/cities. If you want to pillage, a tile, you send a unit to do the job.

This opens up the role of specialist units, like the paratroopers. In the past these units were not used very much because the same job could be done more cheaply with a plane or a ship on the coast.

It is actually quite interesting from a balance perspective.

No it isn't. Your entire basis of thought is fallacious. Paratroopers had their place in Civ 4 and were often the best method of quickly conquering cities. This is quite obvious fanboyism on your part.

 

[SidMeierGroupy]

In Civ 4 one of my fav tactics during the modern era was using airpower and naval power to bomb the living hell out of enemy civs and destroy all of their tile improvements with my bombers/aircraft and guided missiles thus causing famines among other things that damaged the enemy civ without having to resort to direct ground warfare. It was one of the things that made air power so useful and so important.

However, in Civ 5 this is for some reason no longer possible and aircraft as well as guided missiles can no longer attack tiles but only ground units, cities and other aircraft!

Why? Its not like this was invalid tactic or anything! I mean even the AI knew how to and did this every now and then so its not like it was an exploit!

I hope this ability gets added back later, and if not then I would like to know if there is some way to mod it in.

You no longer have this option, my friend, because Civ5 was bumrushed out the door, with little content, headed by a just-out-of-puberty kid who wanted to reinvent the wheel and made it square.
Also, trends show that the average young gamer consumes a lot of Fresca and has been given various pills to control his hyper activity by his school counselor, and anything other than a first person shooter would be so intellectually demanding that he would experience an anneurism. So strategic gameplay, attention to detail, management (not micromanagement, simply ANY management) has gone out the window.

Moderator Action: It's entirely possible to critique a game without attacking the people that happen to like it.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[lordqarlyn]

I don't agree that it is all that realistic anyway. In the middle and dark ages and beyond, it was all left to the ground units because there was no air units. Also, it became necessary to shorten sieges by eliminating sources of food, water, materials to repair weapns, make arrows, etc. It's all about cutting off the supply lines.

In the modern age, if you are Barack Obama at war, and you are paying $20 billion per plane, not to mention fuel, ammo and manpower costs, you are NOT going to dust a crop field with napalm just to mess with the Taliban. Exposing that unit to that kind of risk, for that little reward is mind-bogglingly stupid. Bombing a mobile encampment, a supply convoy, a city, THOSE are good uses for the modern-age units.

I'm not saying that it cannot be done, nor that it is not a viable tactic. Your airforce's PRIORITIES should be elsewhere. Since your ground units are already there anyway and will destroy much of the terrain just marching over it, It's their job to "clean up the mess" while the airforce weakens the city's defences.

Me personally, when I march on a city, I leave as much untouched as possible because I never met a new city I didn't like. It's a little hard to rule when there's nothing left to rule over....

So, you don't think cutting off oil, metals, and other commodities affects a nation's ability to wage war?

 

[lordqarlyn]

It's not even about that. you wouldn't have to touch the fields. just hit the farmsteads. take out the machinery and the crop with rot in the fields. It would be quite easy for a flight of bombers to take out a lot of farmland, one bomb per homestead. take away a modern farmer's tractors (and myriad other machinery) and there is no crop.

a bit off topic, but there really is no reason we shouldn't be able to bomb tile improvements. I don't think its part of the "dumbing down" conspiracy, more likely it has something to do with balance. its bad enough with the AI pillages your strategic resources, what if they could just bomb them? you can't defend against that nearly so easily. even with mobile SAMs, chances are the bomber is still going to drop its payload.

Guess what, that's life? And my own fault for not paying heed to my air force...

 

[Tanthil]

Simple adding bombarding will cause the game more unbalanced, so need to be added with at least one other improvement

Right now when you add tile bombarding to the game can couse this

1. civ X has one source of aluminium, and 3 units with require it
2. you will bomb mine on aluminium hex and automaticaly those 3 units will gain penalty to attack [-40% or so] IMO it has to big impact on how the war will go on

i think i should be like this

1. civ X has one source of aluminium, and 3 units with require it
2. you will bomb mine on aluminium hex and automaticaly those 3 units will be unable to heal themselves when damaged until civ X provide additional souce of aluminium

 

[SerriaFox]

i think i should be like this

1 civ X has one source of aluminium, and 3 units with require it
2 you will bomb mine on aluminium hex and automaticaly those 3 units will be unable to heal themselves when damaged until civ X provide additional souce of aluminium

I like this. Or maybe heal rate = percentage of require material. have 6 unit but only 3 source %50 to heal

 

[shinkicker]

While I really want to be able to bombard tile improvements, it's also a fact that modern ground units can pillage 2 tiles per turn. This made it easy for me to sack Catherine's landscape as if I were the Visigoths.

I love the smell of burning Steppes in the morning.