Why Can't I Ever Get a War Ally?

[Bleser]

There is one thing I really still miss from Civilization III that just isn't the same in Civilization IV: War Allies.

It may be more realistic, but that fact that I can't even bribe an AI to go to war with me is boring. I think I'm only been able to do it about 2 or 3 % of the time (like once every six months) and it is with AIs that are "friendly" to me and "worst enemy" of the one I want to attack. Yes, this makes sense, but real civilizations become friends with a common enemy much easier than it seems in Civ IV (USA/England and Russia, for example).

I remember it being a ton of fun to give an AI a valuable tech for war with someone and then cause a crazy dog-pile. In Civ IV it's always just me vs. them, unless I sign a defensive pact and wait for an attack, which is also boring since they come so late in the game.

Do you guys get AI allies often at all?

 

[Fatality_Slim]

One of the biggest problems is that alot of the Leaders that you want as your war buddies are often already planning wars. Once a leader goes WHEOOHRN, they are already plotting a war and cant be bribed. Basically, if I start next to someone like Shaka, I find I have to bribe him as soon as a I get Alphabet, or he will already have a target picked and not be receptive.

The only part of the mechanic that irritates me is how the AI will consider "its closest friend" for purposes of war bribes.

 

[Bleser]

One of the biggest problems is that alot of the Leaders that you want as your war buddies are often already planning wars. Once a leader goes WHEOOHRN, they are already plotting a war and cant be bribed. Basically, if I start next to someone like Shaka, I find I have to bribe him as soon as a I get Alphabet, or he will already have a target picked and not be receptive.

The only part of the mechanic that irritates me is how the AI will consider "its closest friend" for purposes of war bribes.

Agreed. There are just too many reasons where it isn't even negotiable. I'm pretty sure you could sway a real leader's opinion on the matter with enough gold and technology, but for some reason the AI just cannot be swayed 98% of the time.

 

[Ghpstage]

Bribing is actually a very common move in high level play, its a very good way of chewing up AI bonuses, you don't really want them focused on teching.
A lot of getting bribes to work is to pick the right leaders to ally with, for example once Shaka is Pleased with you you can bribe him to declare on anyone Pleased or less, I think Monty is the same and the biggest of all is Cathy, get her to Friendly and you can set her on anyone.
There are a number of tricks you can use to manipulate diplo, early game city gifting is a very quick way to get AIs like Shaka, Ragnar, Monty and Toku to Pleased, most if not all will be bribeable at that and all make great attack dogs. Keep an eye out for AIs swapping out of popular religions, or favourite civics too, the era of Liberalism often becomes a the bloodiest period in history in mmy games

You do need to match up attackers and targets carefully, doing something like asking Shaka to attack Mansa is very likely to prove a costly mistake.
The BTS reference guide in the war academy has all the info on what people are willing to be bribed to attack, and when the option is available.

**Edit Spiritual is very good at getting wars started, you can use espionage to force AIs out of popular religions and favourite civics, swap back and have half the world declare on them

 

[Yared]

I do get AI allies often.

It's all about fixing around with your diplo.

AIs that are "friendly" to me and "worst enemy" of the one I want to attack

Then find that one AI who considers your target to be his worst enemy and bribe him. If there is no worst enemy, create one.

 

[roguepro92]

in any of my war. BEFORE i declare war i make sure i can bribe someone USEFUL into the war or i can bribe one of their close neighborhood "FRIENDS" into war that way the heat isn't on me and it kills their diplo relations.
dont go into wars blind, always keep nice with the warmongers since if your pleased or friendly they will do the job for you

but most importantly always consider the likely outcome of the war...
if it gets half the continent at war with the other half, there is a huge problem as you WILL be dragged into war and kill your diplos.
if one side wins too much and you can't bribe them to stop, they might get too big and strong.

 

[stopstopp]

I personally like the bribe your "friend" to kill another "friend" so their troops are all messed up so I can just kill them all with less losses

 

[Isikien]

There are a number of tricks you can use to manipulate diplo, early game city gifting is a very quick way to get AIs like Shaka, Ragnar, Monty and Toku to Pleased, most if not all will be bribeable at that and all make great attack dogs.

This is very true, settle a rubbish city right on their borders and then check the diplo menu. If you haven't already been prompted, then (liberate) should appear next to the city. It's a very easy way to get diplo.

Another way would be gifting techs. Alphabet is usually good, especially for the warlike civs who don't prioritise it, so after trading it with more advanced civs, consider giving it to the big violent guy for free

The idea behind war bribing is creating a window of opportunity. It only lasts for a few turns, and most AI wars go goddamned nowhere, so if you bribe make sure you make use of the time, whether its a backstab or a push to some crucial wonders or techs.

 

[Bleser]

Interesting thoughts. I've never seen this "liberate" option in the diplo menu regarding cities; I've only seen the option to just give the AI a city, but man, I've never done that and the thought of it makes my stomach turn!

Here's my current situation - how would you get an AI to declare on another AI?

I started basically isolated - only one other AI on my island. I've destroyed them now and own my island 100%. After optics were discovered, I found the other ten or so AIs on the other massive continent. Of course, they all hate me, as I am a religion none of them are, am backwards in tech relative to them (emperor-level game) and so on. At this point, I can't even give away a tech if I wanted to (they already have them).

So what is my plan to get them fighting?

My thoughts:

1. Pick one of the three major religions on their continent and become that religion. I'm going to choose the one with the Apostolic palace as it gives me those great production bonuses in my improvements.

2. Establish open borders, trade, resources, etc with those same players.

3. Don't trade resources or have open borders with anyone but them.

4. Anything else??

I just feel that even if I do this and they become pleased with me they won't fight anyone due to crap like "we would have nothing to gain" or WHEOOHRN.

 

[Yared]

Fav civics too.

Who are the AI's?

 

[Wreck]

Bleser: yes you certainly want the AP religion if it is at all reasonable. To get a specific religion, you'll want to open borders only with the civ that founded it. (You can also open borders with any other civ that has not founded any religion.) And either one of your friends must be able to reach you with a missionary, or else you must have one or more cities without any religion at all. Only cities with no religion can get automatic religion spreading.

 

[Bleser]

Fav civics too.

Who are the AI's?

Good thought.

The civs are (from memory right now so will hack name spelling here):

William of the Dutch
Boudcia of the Celts
De'Gaulle of the French
Mehemed II of the Ottomons
Isabella of the Spanish
Suyymemerian of the Whoever
Justinian I of the Whoever
Alexander of Greece
<a few others>

Boudicia, De'Gaulle and one other I can't think of are Hindu, so I'm going to be Hindu and have the rest fight. Justinian is Buddhist and in first place so he'll be my target. I'm Victoria of England and the only Jewish on the map, so Hindu switch is necessary.

Bleser: yes you certainly want the AP religion if it is at all reasonable. To get a specific religion, you'll want to open borders only with the civ that founded it. (You can also open borders with any other civ that has not founded any religion.) And either one of your friends must be able to reach you with a missionary, or else you must have one or more cities without any religion at all. Only cities with no religion can get automatic religion spreading.

Yep, the religion I needed auto-spread to one of my new cities, so I'm working on spreading it now and will convert soon.

 

[Bleser]

FYI, I got two fellow Hindu civs on the other continent to "Friendly" and a third to "Pleased" via shared religion, favorite civics, trade, open borders, and "helping" with their current wars (though I really didn't participate).

However, they were never useful. I wanted to attack the Khmer and one of them said WHEOOHRN and the other said "We would have nothing to gain." What the heck am I to do? Basically I built a navy and army twice as big as planned and did it all myself, AGAIN, w/o help. Of course by the time there was only one Khmer city left one of them just joined in (without me asking) and almost stole a city from me. Sheesh!

Now it's worse. Now, the two friends are fighting EACH OTHER and are asking me to pick a side. So far I've said f*** off to both of them and they're gradually getting just "pleased" with me from friendly status. I don't have the strength nor resources to fight either of them now since I'm on their continent.

Diplomacy is hard!

 

[Metzi]

Diplomacy is hard!

Yes it is. But to me, it looks like you've picked the wrong block.
Like real life, Religion just brings more wars...