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Why choose order?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Magma_Dragoon, Sep 2, 2013.

  1. Nivrax

    Nivrax Chieftain

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    They are just names. Gameplay wise, Liberty is for making fast expanding wide empire, which Order enhances, while Tradition is superior in making small but Tall empires, which Freedom then work off with specialists. If Washington makes to Idustrial (his expansion spam seems to piss every Civ around and he get picked off often earlier) he seems to take Order more often. I also seen Gandhi the Terrible so that's that...
     
  2. wigwam

    wigwam Prince

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    This bears repeating. It's an incredibly good tenet. I think this combination (Big Ben, Mercantilism, Skyscrapers) makes buildings cost about 43% of their normal price. It allows you to get production-poor cities or late-founded cities up to speed quickly, so it's good for a wide empire, but it also lets you buy things like Research Labs and Airports en masse as soon as they become available, making it great for a tall empire (going for tourism/science), too.
     
  3. player1 fanatic

    player1 fanatic Fanatic

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    Yep skyscrapers is the answer on the question of why to chose order.

    This is awesome for gold focused empire that gained mercantile policies and optained big ben.

    Buying key buildings early is huge advantage.


    Great happiness tenets and science from factories is just the bonus. Plus most of the order tenets are decent unlike freedom where there are many weak policies and several great ones.
     
  4. Ayestes

    Ayestes Chieftain

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    I've considered Order many times for Five Year Plan and Skyscrapers alone before, but it does depend a fair bit on free tenets and current cities. If I'm specialist heavy then Freedom always feels better. The only problem with Freedom is it feels like it has a lot more junk then Order does after you nab the good ones.
     
  5. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito Real men play SMAC

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    I'm a bit flabbergasted at the discussion in this thread.

    The condition that binds in a Space game is always :c5science:. Freedom doesn't even begin to have a tenet that competes with Worker's Faculties. The Order civ is always going to clear the tree many, many turns faster.

    Every part except the last one can be built comfortably between Apollo and getting the tech required for the last part. This means that the only part where cash rushing or GE use matters is the last one. Either way, you aren't adding the part to the spaceship until a turn after you :c5gold: buy or GE it. This means that Freedom offers no advantages.

    Long story short, Order is always going to be optimal for a Space game and will situationally be the right pick in a Diplomatic game if you're producing enough :c5gold: that influence over city-states won't be a problem.
     
  6. manu-fan

    manu-fan Emperor

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    I always use an expansionist strategy and have tons of cities. Order is perfect with with the happiness from Monestaries, and then the 2nd tier +1 everything in each city.

    On my latest game, I chose something other than Order (just to try it out) and am really regretting it.

    Cheers.
     
  7. Ayestes

    Ayestes Chieftain

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    I'd argue Civil Society and New Deal boost your science rate to counterbalance Worker's Faculties, but to where they end up standing against each other I'm unsure. I'd imagine Worker's Faculties could still be ahead anyway.
     
  8. parts

    parts Chieftain

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    Because you have nothing to lose but your chains
     
  9. Snuffleupagus

    Snuffleupagus Warlord

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    I tend to prefer Order for cultural victories. with the largest AI civs choosing Order as well, it's the only time I've been able to cause full ideology revolt in my autocratic enemies. It's great.
     
  10. Tibbz

    Tibbz Chieftain

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    Massive amounts of happiness, +25% science boost from factory build in 1/2 the time, +2 production per city +1 production per mine is why order is by far the best for any semi-wide empire.

    Freedom is probably better if you are going tall and only have like 3-4 cities.
     
  11. Karmah

    Karmah Emperor Supporter

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    not true. you get a courthouse built in every city you capture after iron curtain , even the puppets
     
  12. Karmah

    Karmah Emperor Supporter

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    My opinion is that if the game woul last indefinetely , no ideologies would compete wiyh order.
    Order has this massive capability of making any empire grow as much as desired , both wide and tal : happiness per city is pretty high , production will be there to ensure you get your cities developping fast...just great.
    So now why not choose order all the time ? because freedom is really good if you have gone ubertall from the start and have planned ahead and settled quite some great people improvement. I had a game where all my mines where factories , well in fact I onmy had GPimprovements excpt for some heavy foods tiles ..so yeah in that case you go freedom + congress resolution and enjoy :)
    Autocracy is just superb if you are at high level , forced to war to win and late in science.
     
  13. manu-fan

    manu-fan Emperor

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    Not true. I asked the exact question a while back because I wasn't getting Courthouses in my Puppets.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=507240

    Cheers.
     
  14. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    I was hoping you'd offer your thoughts. I was kinda torn between more academy yield and a % modifier, but I suppose the more academies I have, the more base science I have for the factory to amplify. But for diplo victory, how would a human player acquire a happiness surplus larger than the AI? was thinking culture, how would order help for diplo victory?
     
  15. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

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    Getting to Telecommunications faster to unlock the UN, I would think. Unless you're playing against Greece and Siam at the same time it's very unlikely that you won't be able to out compete the AI for city-states, so the real hangup for diplo wins is science.
     
  16. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito Real men play SMAC

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    Right, the point of Order in Diplo would be to push Information Age a touch faster. I'd be surprised if you're going to save more than a couple of turns under most conditions, but Order would be extremely helpful in, say, an OCC situation.

    You're not going to have enough Academies to make the Freedom great tile booster outperform a 25% Science buff. It's rare that I even plant the second GS, because I've got Public Schools 30 turns after Universities go in and it takes 34 turns to pop the second GS at 6 GPP/turn.
     
  17. The A.K.T

    The A.K.T Warlord

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    Why pick anything but order? is the question.

    Order is far the best of the tenets. Giving big bonusses to happiness, Science and some to turisme. I, and most likely many others look at this as the strongest idologi
     
  18. Karmah

    Karmah Emperor Supporter

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    I pick autocracy a lot on deity when I need to catch up and destroy runaways
     
  19. Singulare

    Singulare Chieftain

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    I'm playing my current game with the Order ideology and the following seems to be working great for my civilizations which 12 cities currently and probably gonna grow to 18 very soon.

    Level 1
    Socialist Realism: +2 Local Happiness from each Monument. Build Monuments in half the usual time. - lots of happiness
    Skyscrapers: Gold cost of purchasing buildings reduced by 33%. - makes easier to build up the new cities very fast
    Young Pioneers: +1 Local Happiness per Workshop, Factory and Solar/Nuclear/Hydro Plant. - thats 2-3 more happiness in every city since those are the first things i buy in them.

    Level 2
    Party Leadership: +1 Culture, Food, Gold, Production and Science per City. - an overall boost to your entire especially good for the smaller cities.
    Five-Year Plan: +2 Production per City. +1 Production per Mine and Quarry. - super awesome production bonus.
    Worker's Faculties: +25% Science output from Cities with a Factory. Build Factories in half the usual time. - another awesome policy.

    Something needs to be change in the level 3 policies we need something that help all around instead of them being so specific. right now I dont find much use for either of the 3 in the current game.
     
  20. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    I disagree... having the level 3 tenets be very victory-specific is good...
    By the time you get a level 3 tenet you are in the end game... if you just want to improve your empire generically.. pick more level 1 or 2 tenets... or pick some social policies.
     

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