Abaddon
Deity
How come Africa remained tribal rather than progress into towns/citys like most other places?
Why didnt Africa Develope?
- Thread starter Abaddon
- Start date
Verbose
Deity
A lot of Africa did.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Mainly it has to do with accesability to resources. There are some parts in Africa which are not very fertile or have lack of water and would hemper their development.
Technically, you had Egypt and Carthage, two huge African civilizations (maybe a couple more if you want to count the areas around Egypt like Ethiopia, and SW Africa, which is a bit more fertile). They were in turn conquered by numerous other empires, and Northern Africa never really recovered after that (it was one empire after another).
Southern Africa is mostly jungle/desert/sahvanna, so there's not much room for a stable farming season (The sahvanna relies on the monsoons I think). Plus, there was never any real outside influence until modern times (no empires that conquered or bordered on regions to help them develop). I think the lack of viable farmlands (and river systems -- the Nile being the only (?) major one) is the major reason. Plus, there's geo-political issues.
Comparison:
Europe - Europe is a peninsula, and has lots of hills/mountains (another place where civilization seems to like to grow - Greece is on hills, the Inca were on mountains), so tribes coming in from Asia were squeezed into one area.
Mid-East - Major rivers, but surrounding desert. Essentially, it became every tribe for itself to squander over limited resources (that's still the case today). It's also a chokepoint between three continents. Whoever controlled it, controlled trade in Africa (Egypt/Carthage/Ethiopia), Europe, and Asia.
India - Another peninsula, but also has a huge mountain range to the north, thus cutting them off so they could grow peacefully. The trade routes going from Europe to China probably helped them a little bit.
China - Several river systems, but there's not many nations in this corner, since they all headed west - to Europe. (Couldn't go south, since there's water, and India. Couldn't go north - Siberia. Only way was west.)
Southern Africa is mostly jungle/desert/sahvanna, so there's not much room for a stable farming season (The sahvanna relies on the monsoons I think). Plus, there was never any real outside influence until modern times (no empires that conquered or bordered on regions to help them develop). I think the lack of viable farmlands (and river systems -- the Nile being the only (?) major one) is the major reason. Plus, there's geo-political issues.
Comparison:
Europe - Europe is a peninsula, and has lots of hills/mountains (another place where civilization seems to like to grow - Greece is on hills, the Inca were on mountains), so tribes coming in from Asia were squeezed into one area.
Mid-East - Major rivers, but surrounding desert. Essentially, it became every tribe for itself to squander over limited resources (that's still the case today). It's also a chokepoint between three continents. Whoever controlled it, controlled trade in Africa (Egypt/Carthage/Ethiopia), Europe, and Asia.
India - Another peninsula, but also has a huge mountain range to the north, thus cutting them off so they could grow peacefully. The trade routes going from Europe to China probably helped them a little bit.
China - Several river systems, but there's not many nations in this corner, since they all headed west - to Europe. (Couldn't go south, since there's water, and India. Couldn't go north - Siberia. Only way was west.)
Why do people keep asking such questions?
Look here.
Africa did develop towns and cities like other places. In fact there are rather a lot of really quite big cities in Africa. The points Chieftess makes are right, but even so she still leaves out major empires and cities such as those of the Sahel. Ghana, Mali, Songhai, not to mention Kanem-Bornu and others - all great empires with lots of towns and cities. Haven't you ever heard of Djenne or Timbuktu?
Many people seem just unable to grasp the concept that much of Africa is "tribal" (in the sense that people are members of tribes) but this is perfectly compatible with being modern and urban. People see Africans waving spears around on the Discovery Channel and suppose that all Africans are like that. That's like watching Steve Irwin and supposing that all Australians wear khaki shorts and wrestle crocodiles.
Look here.
Africa did develop towns and cities like other places. In fact there are rather a lot of really quite big cities in Africa. The points Chieftess makes are right, but even so she still leaves out major empires and cities such as those of the Sahel. Ghana, Mali, Songhai, not to mention Kanem-Bornu and others - all great empires with lots of towns and cities. Haven't you ever heard of Djenne or Timbuktu?
Many people seem just unable to grasp the concept that much of Africa is "tribal" (in the sense that people are members of tribes) but this is perfectly compatible with being modern and urban. People see Africans waving spears around on the Discovery Channel and suppose that all Africans are like that. That's like watching Steve Irwin and supposing that all Australians wear khaki shorts and wrestle crocodiles.
sydhe
King of Kongs
Africa does have its share of major rivers, including the worlds second largest river system in capacity, the Congo, as well as the Niger, Zambezi, Orange and Limpopo. They do have a shortage of navigable rivers.
Abaddon
Deity
Oh no, dont get we wrong, i realise there are massive citys etc now.. but this is all relativly late development.
I guess jungle/repeated beating took its toll. An while there are pretty major things as Plot pointed out.. howcome nothing is still current? Why did all these major civs collapse? or not go onto expand and end up like europe?
I guess jungle/repeated beating took its toll. An while there are pretty major things as Plot pointed out.. howcome nothing is still current? Why did all these major civs collapse? or not go onto expand and end up like europe?
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Because they were vulnerable empires.
Mali-Ghana-Songhay drew much of their power and wealth from both their control of the Africa-Europe trade across the Sahara, and depended also on the fertility of the Niger valley. The increasing desertification of the Sahara over the past 1000 years or so, combined with the European explorers reaching the Gulf of Guinea (and finding much more effective routes to Africa thus) essentialy relegated them to being a backwater.
The same can be said of the Swahili city-states along the Indian Ocean coast. Powerful, wealthy, and relatively advanced, but with each more or less independant, there was no central authority to challenge the portuguesse when they showed up and started preying on the trade there.
Combine that with heavy pressure from the muslim world (Morroco attacked Mali-Songhay times and times again, and Ethiopia found itself isolated), which kept them from being able to focus on expansion (unlike Spain, etc, which were under little DIRECT threat, at least after 1492 for Spain)
Mali-Ghana-Songhay drew much of their power and wealth from both their control of the Africa-Europe trade across the Sahara, and depended also on the fertility of the Niger valley. The increasing desertification of the Sahara over the past 1000 years or so, combined with the European explorers reaching the Gulf of Guinea (and finding much more effective routes to Africa thus) essentialy relegated them to being a backwater.
The same can be said of the Swahili city-states along the Indian Ocean coast. Powerful, wealthy, and relatively advanced, but with each more or less independant, there was no central authority to challenge the portuguesse when they showed up and started preying on the trade there.
Combine that with heavy pressure from the muslim world (Morroco attacked Mali-Songhay times and times again, and Ethiopia found itself isolated), which kept them from being able to focus on expansion (unlike Spain, etc, which were under little DIRECT threat, at least after 1492 for Spain)
Abbadon is talking about why aren't there first-world countries in Africa.
Because the rest of the world has used and abused Africa since the times of the Roman empire.
Same deal with South America.. butchered by Europe.. and never recovered.
Because the rest of the world has used and abused Africa since the times of the Roman empire.
Same deal with South America.. butchered by Europe.. and never recovered.
Abaddon
Deity
Cheers Inter.
A combination of bad luck left them raped by the 1st world.
A combination of bad luck left them raped by the 1st world.
Mulholland
Happy New Year!!!!
I'm going to have to agree with what Inter says in principal. Slavery also had a huge impact on the development of Africa. Europeans enriched coastal city states in present day Nigeria and all along the Slave Coast by trading guns and manufactured goods for slaves captured inland. The slaves were picked on thier age and stature, so those between 18 and 35 were the best slaves. This in effect hollowed out the demograpic pyramid and reduced the interieor tribes' ability to reproduce and innovate, setting them back many generations and forcing them to revise entire socaial structures. The 'enriched' ports of call for European slave traders on the other hand became dependent on european manufactured goods and became locked in a cycle of dependency.Inter4 said:
Abaddon
Deity
we really are to blame for msot things arn't we 
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Not for everything.
But it's certain that the fact that we pulled ahead at a critical time, combined with the fact that our culture promote individualism, which, due to that little itty-bitty problem known as "death", does NOT get along with long-term thinking (not that many human system of thought do ; but ours is below even that average), has much more than its faire share of problems in the long run.
But it's certain that the fact that we pulled ahead at a critical time, combined with the fact that our culture promote individualism, which, due to that little itty-bitty problem known as "death", does NOT get along with long-term thinking (not that many human system of thought do ; but ours is below even that average), has much more than its faire share of problems in the long run.
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
There's several reasons why Africa didn't develop as well as Europe. Geographically (From Europe), it was because:
1. Africa's almost completely surrounded by Seas and Oceans. This means that traders and explorers need boats to get there, preferably across the Mediterranian.
2. Directly below the Mediterranian is the huge Sahara Desert. This means that traders and explorers NOW need some viable means to get across it. Of course, they could swim around it, but then the middle African civilizations will still suffer.
3. A little further on, and you've got that big jungle that almost complely streaches across Africa (Is it the Congo jungle?). Over to the East there are mountains. This means even more preperation.
4. Finally, after this, you'd probably need to restock on supplies. But wait! Where are the supplies? Are those local natives there who've decorated themselves in an intimidating manor freindly or cannibalistic enemies?
So, I think that should sum up why, geographically, Africa didn't do as well as Europe.
1. Africa's almost completely surrounded by Seas and Oceans. This means that traders and explorers need boats to get there, preferably across the Mediterranian.
2. Directly below the Mediterranian is the huge Sahara Desert. This means that traders and explorers NOW need some viable means to get across it. Of course, they could swim around it, but then the middle African civilizations will still suffer.
3. A little further on, and you've got that big jungle that almost complely streaches across Africa (Is it the Congo jungle?). Over to the East there are mountains. This means even more preperation.
4. Finally, after this, you'd probably need to restock on supplies. But wait! Where are the supplies? Are those local natives there who've decorated themselves in an intimidating manor freindly or cannibalistic enemies?
So, I think that should sum up why, geographically, Africa didn't do as well as Europe.
The Trans-Atlantic Slave trade was partly to blame.
West Africa have been supplying slaves to Europe and Middle East for centuries. Most were war captives, captured in sproidic warfare that plague West Africa. However, the region was able to develop. Native kingdoms flourished and prospered from trade with mainly the Islamic World. In return for slaves and gold, the Africans receive from the Islamic World knowledge in astronomy, medicine, law and government among other things, and of course the Islamic religion which did much to close the gaps between different chiefdoms and kingdoms.
When Europeans began to settle the Americas, they began to import slaves from West Africa. Eventually, demand outstrip supply. Responding to Western slavers' pressure and also to their own greed, African chiefdoms and kingdoms began fighting one another more often, for the primary purpose of obtaining war captives to sell as slaves. These conflicts rather than increasing West Africa's wealth, left the region impoverished, stagnated advancements in technology and obliterated the African's sense of unity.
The introduction of firearms only made the situation worse. The tribes with guns freely obliterated those without.
Oops. It's downhill from then on. Because the chiefdoms spent the best of the 17th and 18th century killing and enslaving each other, they didn't have much time developing other areas of their economy. When the West banned the slave trade in the 1800s, West Africa was robbed of its primary income. So when the Scramble for Africa starts in the 1880s the Africans had nothing: no money, no infrastructure and no weapons to compete with Western imperialists.
West Africa have been supplying slaves to Europe and Middle East for centuries. Most were war captives, captured in sproidic warfare that plague West Africa. However, the region was able to develop. Native kingdoms flourished and prospered from trade with mainly the Islamic World. In return for slaves and gold, the Africans receive from the Islamic World knowledge in astronomy, medicine, law and government among other things, and of course the Islamic religion which did much to close the gaps between different chiefdoms and kingdoms.
When Europeans began to settle the Americas, they began to import slaves from West Africa. Eventually, demand outstrip supply. Responding to Western slavers' pressure and also to their own greed, African chiefdoms and kingdoms began fighting one another more often, for the primary purpose of obtaining war captives to sell as slaves. These conflicts rather than increasing West Africa's wealth, left the region impoverished, stagnated advancements in technology and obliterated the African's sense of unity.
The introduction of firearms only made the situation worse. The tribes with guns freely obliterated those without.
Oops. It's downhill from then on. Because the chiefdoms spent the best of the 17th and 18th century killing and enslaving each other, they didn't have much time developing other areas of their economy. When the West banned the slave trade in the 1800s, West Africa was robbed of its primary income. So when the Scramble for Africa starts in the 1880s the Africans had nothing: no money, no infrastructure and no weapons to compete with Western imperialists.
GinandTonic
Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime
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The range of the tsetse fly limited domestication of animals.
Zardnaar
Deity
Blame the slave trade gets really old fast as in only covers a short amount of African history. Africa had the resources, water, rivers, etc to do well but geography IMHO was the main factor- being cut off from the middle east and the mediteranian and having no conract with the far east.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Those would be better explanation if they were more factual than imaginational...
Much of Africa was in constant contact with the Middle East (Timbuktu, important Muslim center of learning ; the swahili traders plying the indian ocean, etc), and not much less in contact with the far east than Europe in the same time period.
Much of Africa was in constant contact with the Middle East (Timbuktu, important Muslim center of learning ; the swahili traders plying the indian ocean, etc), and not much less in contact with the far east than Europe in the same time period.
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