Why didn't/doesn't Basium get a unique weapon?

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Aug 2, 2009
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It's been bugging me for awhile now.

It seems like most unique weapons/items come with a hero: not all, but most. Some of great effects, others just boost a little bit. Even Hybie gets his evil lance of whatchamacallit. But Basium gets none.

Hybie is, like Basium's twin. (Not literally, but you know what I mean.) They're mechanics and extremes mirror eachother. So why does Hybie get a weapon and Basium not?

He seems like the kind of guy you'd expect to get one. And isn't there some obscure lore point that Basium's hammer/club traps the souls of demons? That would seem to be a pretty handy game-effect: anyone killed by Basium's weapon can NOT be reborn as an Infernal.

So, was there a reason really?
 
Yes, every hero should have their own little special weapon. That way I can kill them all and get 30 different weapons for my one unit. That really makes them special and cool.
 
I found it ironic that you said Hyborem is like Basium's twin considering that Basium is the one character represented in the game that actually does have a twin, his sister Gyra, the Archangel of Death.


Basium traps the souls of demons somehow, and it is implied that his War Hammer is involved, but I don't think the mechanism of their imprisonment has actually be revealed.

I just got to thinking that his weapon may operate just like The Netherblade (which Laroth may have made as a copy of the weapon Basium used in the Godswar), but instead of binding souls to the Netherworld it might bind souls to the Vault of Life. This would be the heaven whihc Nemed created, but then abandoned in order to become the first man. Nemed never ceated any angels and quite possibly left his vault unfinished. I imagine it as an infinite empty plain of bright white light, filled with enough life mana that it causes the demons' yearning to return to Erebus or their gods' vaults to be so strong that no physical torture could compare to it.

(The lore says that every god except Dagda had made himself a vault before the work on Erebus began. However, the vault of nature is now ruled by Cernunnos and it is implied that Sucellus did not move on to Nemed's vault when he took up the precept of life but instead continues to move through Erebus as an invisible, incorporeal spirit. I guess the agreement made in order to let him confront Mulcarn here means that he alone among the gods can make Erebus his home.)




I would love to see the Malleus Vindex (as I typically call Basium's War Hammer) prevent souls from returning as manes (/Mokka's Caulron demons/power for the Soul Forge), but I'm not sure the code allows that. It would be possible to prevent units killed by the Mercurians from returning as Manes, but that function does not keep track of the actual unit that kills something.
 
I find that Basium charges into certain death on his own, usually 5 turns after the gate has been built - so he tends to have zilch impact in my single player games. Shouldn't he get March from the start to make him last a few turns longer?
 
I find that Basium charges into certain death on his own, usually 5 turns after the gate has been built - so he tends to have zilch impact in my single player games. Shouldn't he get March from the start to make him last a few turns longer?
Wait, you mean he actually fights in yours?

In mine he does nothing but sit in his capitol.
 
Yes, he's pretty much the reincarnation of Orthus: bangs head on wall, repeat until dead.

Most likely reason is that I'm usually in a war when the gate is finished, Basium seeks out my enemy without gaining XP the peaceful way, then goes into a fight without support and without promotions.
 
I found it ironic that you said Hyborem is like Basium's twin considering that Basium is the one character represented in the game that actually does have a twin, his sister Gyra, the Archangel of Death.

Hyborem has a twin, too: Cernunnos. ;)
 
Hyborem is less Cernunnos's twin than he is his clone or counterfeit. Cernunnos is much older than Hyborem, and after ascending into godhood may no longer bear much resemblance to his old doppelganger.
 
how perfectly was he copied and mirrored into Hyborem? as in, all his memories? feelings? etc?
 
That is not really clear. All we really know the event is here:
Chapter 2: Beltane Cycle said:
Cernunnos, the great horned one, awoke to the whispers of the trees. They spoke of his son Gower, that he had left the protection of the forest. He was instantly up and charging through the forest. The Ljosalfar stared as his passing, unable to hear the trees and scared to see the greatest angel of Sucellus so enraged.

"Where did he go? What of my children?"

The chorus of answers surrounded him, "into the mountains...", "the children wait at the forests edge...", "Gower is gone...".

As he ran he felt the presence of Sucellus beside him, calming him although Cernunnos didn't want to be calmed.

"Why didn't you stop him?"

Sucellus spoke directly to his archangel, his words resounded within him "This is no prison my child. Gower left of his own will, you cannot follow."

Cernunnos knew the truth of the words but refused to answer. In a few minutes he was at the forests edge where the rest of sons stood yelling for Gower to come back. Gower was just beginning the ascent, no more than a few hundred yards from the forests edge. Cernunnos stopped to command his other sons to return to the forests heart, but so terrible was his expression that he didn't even need to speak to send them all fleeing into the forest.

Cernunnos yelled from the edge. His great voice echoed against the mountain and everyone in the forest heard his call but Gower continued on as if he hadn't. Frustrated Cernunnos ripped out a tree and slammed it into the ground. The mountainside trembled with the blow, sending rocks rolling down into the forest and even knocking down Gower as he climbed. But still he didn't look back.

Even more angry Cernunnos picked up one of the loose rocks that had rolled into the forest and threw it at his son. The rock hit Gower on his shoulder and he fell in pain. But when he picked himself up he only looked up the mountain and hurried forward even faster.

Cernunnos looked back into the forests heart. Sucellus hadn't moved from the great chamber of root and branches that was his home, but his spirit was there at the forests edge. Cernunnos only whispered "I'm sorry" and then jumped out onto the mountainside.

Landing on the rocky slope Cernunnos felt the loss of Sucellus's ara for the first time. His body trembled and it felt like his soul was pulled out of him. Only the thought of his eldest son scrambling up the slope ahead of him allowed him to continue on. Cernunnos yelled Gower's name again as he picked himself up.

A shadow fell over him. Cernunnos recognized the god of despair when he saw him and paled when Agares dropped between him and his son.

"You were always my favorite of the archangels, are you as strong as they say?"

Agares stood bathed in black and gold flames, he was beautiful and horrible. His lance was raised above his head and his 6 wings fully unfurled and blocking Cernunnos's sight of his son.

Cernunnos summoned the strength to talk, "I only want my son, I have no quarrel with you."

"If you want him," Agares smiled "come and get him."

Cernunnos charged forward, lowering his head he braced his shoulders for the impact. Nothing had ever resisted his charge, though he had never attacked a god before.

Just before the strike a single feather fell off of Agares's wing. It landed on Cernunnos's back and drove the charging archangel to the ground. There he lay prostrate before the god of entropy, a single feather on his back. As much as he struggled, dug his hands into the earth and shattered the rocks beneath him Cernunnos could not rise.

Agares knelt down beside Cernunnos, "Maybe next time will work out better for you." Then Agares was off into the sky, the shadow passed over Cernunnos and was gone.

Cernunnos labored under the weight of the feather for the rest of the day. When the sun finally dipped below the mountains and Cernunnos was swallowed by the mountains shadow a breeze blew along the mountainside. Barely enough to ruffle hair the breeze picked up the feather which circled lazily in the breeze before slipping down and coming to rest at the forests edge.

But Cernunnos was already gone. The mountain shook with each thunderous strike of his hooves as he charged up the mountain. He could see the silhouette of Gower at the mountains peak, standing, looking over the mountain. Cernunnos was terrified for his son but for a moment he had hope. Hope that he would reach him in time. Hope that his encounter with Agares had nothing to do with Gower. Then Agares stood up next to Gower on the mountains peak and that hope was gone.

Cernunnos screamed, the mountains echoed that terrified yell back at him and over the forest below. The Ljosalfar cried in anguish and Cernunnos's other children echoed their fathers yell.

Agares reached out and grabbed Gower by the throat. The satyr flailed helplessly in the gods powerful grip. Gower's muscles strained and turned red, his limbs trembled. Agares reached out with his other hand and opened a portal. There was a dark world beyond, full of ashes and pitch black seas. It was the ruins of a world now ground to dust. And Agares carried Gower through the portal.

Cernunnos reached the top just as the portal began to close. Without thinking he leapt through.

Cernunnos lost his connection with Sucellus when he left the forest. But he hadn't realized that he could feel the connection with each of the gods until it was taken from him. Passionate Bhall, loving Sirona, vigilant Junil all had some part in his soul and drove him from the forest to save his son. But this world was devoid of their voices. Here only one god remained, the god of despair, Agares.

The world was ash in all directions. The sky was empty and although he had seen a dark river leading to a sea that seemed to reflect the empty sky Cernunnos couldn't see it now. But Cernunnos was not without talents, he was the archangel of nature and he reached his hands down into the grey earth and called for some living thing to respond. Something with strength, with warmth that could grow and change. The entire world could not be dead.

And he felt it, the only life in this forgotten world, his son being dragged into a pit. Gower was still alive but in horrible pain. And for the first time Gower sensed Cernunnos as well and called out his father's name.

Cernunnos was up and moving again. Across the endless grey, his breaths the only sound in this empty world and a wake of ashes left behind him. He followed his sons call until he came to a great pit. In the center a granite island floated and ashes eternally fell like sand from it into the darkness below. Agares stood on the island with the captured Gower.

Cernunnos leapt. He flew across the expanse like a bird in flight and as he flew he heard, he felt, Gower's cries. Halfway across the expanse Agares squeezed the neck of the young satyr and he died. Gower's soul hung in the air, longed for the call of Sucellus to lead him to his eternal home but Agares reached out and consumed the satyr's soul instead.

Cernunnos slammed into the side of the floating island. He cried out for his son in despair as he clawed his way up and over the lip of the island onto the top.

Agares stood alone on the flat granite top. He casually tossed the broken body of Gower down in front of him and Cernunnos charged. Agares held out a hand to stop the enraged archangel and the entire world shuddered with the force of the impact. Agares was the heart of this world and he could not be moved. But so powerful was Cernunnos strike that the world was moved around him. Chasms opened up in the surface of the deepest hell, rivers poured into lost caverns, and Agares was laid prostrate before the mighty Cernunnos.

Agares looked down at the horn marks in his black and gold breastplate. It was as great a hit as the he had ever received, but he was a god and would not fall to an archangels attack.

Agares was on Cernunnos in full force. His lance forgotten Agares tore into the horned giant as a beast. Black and gold flames sheathed both of them, burning Cernunnos and he suffered through the physical attack and a similar assault on his soul. Both his body and his spirit were being crushed by the force of Agares. Agares grabbed Cernunnos's head and turned it to the smooth polished floor of the island, it was a perfect black mirror that reflected the pain and anguish Cernunnos was feeling.

"You were always my favorite of the archangels." Agares whispered.

From within the black mirror Cernunnos's image writhed and yelled. He shared all of Cernunnos's features but they were cast in blacks and reds instead of browns and green of the archangel. As Cernunnos watched in horror the image reached up through the surface and climbed out of the mirror. This dark version of him stood leering down at where Agares held him.

Satisfied with his new creation Agares wrapped his hand around Cernunnos's throat and squeezed. The world swirled in Cernunnos's gaze, he could feel his life draining from him and Agares preparing to consume his soul.

A crack of thunder shook the island. Agares screamed in pain and dropped Cernunnos. Another blow destroyed Agares's breastplate and drove the god back further. The twisted image of Cernunnos charged and was caught by deer hooves and kicked over the side of the island and into the pit. Sucellus stood in the center of the island, an angry god in all his glory. He looked down at Cernunnos but his gaze was caught in the black mirror.

Cernunnos realized immediately what was happening so he struck the mirror with all his force and the mirror exploded around them. Great black shards rained over them and Agares howled in anger. Cernunnos picked up a shard, intending to throw it at the god of despair but Sucellus grabbed him and the grey wastes of Agares's hell disappeared beneath them.

Back in the forest Sucellus called out to every plant and animal, ordering them to prepare for the coming battle. As his presence raced through the forest he could already feel Agares's taint invading. The forest was being twisted and corrupted. The grass withered, animals grew sick and fled, spreading their disease in any area they passed through.

Cernunnos began organizing the Ljosalfar. They had never known war but they would soon. One, a young sculptor, looked into the shard of the black mirror Cernunnos still held. She was frozen, transfixed by it. A ghostly image appeared beside her, an image of her but malicious and cruel. Cernunnos crushed the image with his massive fist and handed the shard, face down, to the elf.

"Hide this, don't ever let anyone look into it."

She took the shard it and rushed off immediately to perform the task. There was a battle coming, but Cernunnos had a task left to perform before he started it.

He returned to his home beneath the red oak. Gower's mother was waiting outside. He didn't need to say anything, as he approached she fell weeping, her head in her hands.

The children sat entranced by the story. Eyes widened with every attack and they quivered and mourned with each defeat.

"What happened next?" Cewellyn asked.

The storyteller considered the question.

"I wish I could say that things were better but things became much worse. Sucellus and Danalin joined the Godswar and creation itself was nearly destroyed in the following weeks. Fortunately, rather than cause that, the gods came together to create the compact and agree to withdrawal from creation. All because of the events begun by Gower."

"Did Sucellus rescue Gower?"

"No, I don't believe so. But at Beltane the nations that revere Cernunnos hold a wrestling celebration that is in honor of his favored son. And to this day the satyrs, distant children of Cernunnos, ally themselves to any nation that follows their great father."

The storyteller paused. Beltane was only a few nights away and he wanted the children to understand that these were more than just games.

"But it is late and more of this story will have to wait for another night."

The storyteller smiled as the children moaned and begged for a little more time. But they eventually accepted the storytellers statement and went off to their beds where they were met by dreams of battling gods, Cernunnos and his favorite son.
 
Yes, every hero should have their own little special weapon. That way I can kill them all and get 30 different weapons for my one unit. That really makes them special and cool.

Irrelevant and failing at being sarcastic. I agree with the OP, Basium should have an item, e.g. something with Law or Life affinity.
 
Irrelevant and failing at being sarcastic. I agree with the OP, Basium should have an item, e.g. something with Law or Life affinity.

I wonder if there'd be a way that only members of a particular race or maybe even unit type could use (or I suppose, cast the spell to pick up) a particular item or weapon? Like a Paladin, Confessor, Prior, or any member of the Angel race (Brigit, Sphener, Basium, lots of Mercurian units, I guess even a Host of the Einj.)? In case there was a concern about one unit collecting twenty different items and having ridiculous affinities.
 
Equiping two affinity items is seldom much more powerful than just equiping one can be. For example, if you have 4 nodes and two affinity items then you can format the nodes so that the items give:

+4 / +0
+3 / +1
+2 / +2
+1 / +3
+0 / +4

IE, +4 total, the same as if you had only one affinity item. Of course static mana sources (Palace mana, religious wonders, special features, trades and tribute) can change this equation, but in typical situations that will only result in a minor increase. In any event, it is the mana from nodes that really makes affinity items strong; static sources, except in the most unusual of circumstances, will only provide a bonus on par with that provided by other (non-affinity) items.

So, I don't think there's any need to limit affinity items to only certain units. The important thing is not to provide items with affinity that matches an affinity that already exists on another item or unit, since this would produce a stacking affinity.
 
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