Why does this game have too romes?

[KrikkitTwo]

Admitedly it doesn't compare to Rome but only probably half of them do. Really one could at best include Rome, China, Persia, India, America, and two
from (France, England, Germany, Russia)

Some of the only societies to Maintain Empires across large portions of a continent (Asia's a bigger continent so smaller portions are needed) and have a Long History, (excepting America for current Impact) [Spain and Portugal out because a lot more land was claimed than even moderately controlled for most of their history]

Most Other Empire have Rapidly dissolved, or been small or limited in respect.

The fact is almost all of them were significant enough in some respect... or are just fun to play (Zulus, Native Americans, Celts, Vikings)

 

[Evil Twin]

So because some games developers didnt do their research you conclude that a nation has no worthwhile history? Very interesting indeed.

My conclusion is not based on that. It is an example.

Ethiopia/Abyssinia is one of the oldest settled countries in the world.

So is Pakistan.

Ancient Kingdom of Dʿmt in 8th century B.C.
Aksumite Kingdom - long ascribed as one of the major powers of its time including Rome, China, Persia in the 1st century B.C.

That's like justifying Italy's presence by citing Rome's achievements.

Second oldest Christian kingdom.

Hey that'd be super duper if Christianity was a positive development. But that's another topic.

Ancient hold of Judaism.

And yet the birthplace of Judaism is strangely absent.

Kush is another famous kingdom of the region.

Which is not Ethiopia.

Fantastic ancient buildings from B.C.

Which are so fantastic nobody's ever heard of them. Oh, you don't mean those mud huts of theirs, do you?

Some wonderful castles from medieval period.

I'm sorry, that's not vague enough. Could you be a little less specific?

Hardly nothing.

Compared to the numerous other civs out there, yes they are nothing. Their so called achievements are primitive and forgettable, their people uneducated and violent, their culture a ridiculous joke. They only got in because it was politically correct to add another "black" civ (though why they looked over Nubia I'll never know).

 

[Monkeyfinger]

this is my most successful troll topic ever

i mean, comapred to my hitler/HRE/Poland topic which got locked after 2 posts

thank you evil twin

 

[TheLastOne36]

this is my most successful troll topic ever

i mean, comapred to my hitler/HRE/Poland topic which got locked after 2 posts

thank you evil twin

you created a topic with Hitler and Poland in the title?

i'll take you to the back now.

 

[Breunor]

Well genetically they were some cross between greek and roman. and yes dennis is right on the language thing.

Sorry last, this isn't correct either.

One of the most important facts about Roman History, which distinguishes it from other empires, is that the Romans generally didn't settle conquered areas. They occasionally put in settler colonies, usually of former soldiers, but the Roman/Italian population was actually declining in its glory period. This is why we have the 'Lex Julia' trying to make tax relief for people with a lot of children. (Note, we don't know if Caesar or Augustus had this law passed because Augustus used his adopted name of Julius Caesar for laws).

The reason this fact is so important is that The Roman republic, and Empire, by necessity became inclusive.

The people in the areas of the Roman Empire that fell under Byzantine rule were not dominated by Roman or Italian people, but remained largely the indigenous people of the regions.



Some other points -- the Byzantine empire DID think of itself as the Roman Empire, absolutely for hundreds of years. Greek became official in 610, but I suspect it was the dominant language before that anyway except for offical documents.

So the Byzantines were "Roman" in many respects and not Roman in others.


Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[Spearthrower]

My conclusion is not based on that. It is an example.

Well it clearly isnt based on much else

So is Pakistan..

So because another country has a long human settlement that detracts from this one?

That's like justifying Italy's presence by citing Rome's achievements.

There are plenty of civs in this game that are there on the strength of their forebears. Not that this is the case here as I was talking about Abyssinia which has been around a damn sight longer than Italy.

Hey that'd be super duper if Christianity was a positive development. But that's another topic..

It's called culture, tradition and history.... no matter what you think of the religion, it is still a value to be recognised.

Which is not Ethiopia..

In Ethiopia.

Which are so fantastic nobody's ever heard of them. Oh, you don't mean those mud huts of theirs, do you?.

You've never heard of them? So why are you commenting? Ignorance does not an argument make.

I'm sorry, that's not vague enough. Could you be a little less specific?.

Go do the research yourself, just dont make claims without looking into the facts first! I'm not being paid to educate you... I told you castles, it only takes you 2 minutes to type in "ethiopia" and "castle" and hit search - it might surprise you rather than speaking without any knowledge... it might challenge your obvious preconceptions/prejudices.

Compared to the numerous other civs out there, yes they are nothing. Their so called achievements are primitive and forgettable, their people uneducated and violent, their culture a ridiculous joke. They only got in because it was politically correct to add another "black" civ (though why they looked over Nubia I'll never know).

And it would seem that your main objection here is that you know nothing about them and you know nothing about them because they are black. Seemingly you have a very large chip on your shoulder regarding other nations, seen a lot of racist remarks by you in the last couple of weeks.... this would appear to be another extension of those.

You can't prove a negative. Ethiopia is in thanks to it being one of the oldest human settlements in the world. Its long history and culture are exactly the right type of material for a game like civ... especially when it challenges people to realise that the history they were taught as school ignores the wealth of human development in other areas of the world.

 

[bonafide11]

Thank you Spearthrower! If you didn't come to Ethiopia's defense, I would have had to.

 

[Blaarg]

The title 'Czar' is a bastardization of Ceasar. I believe the original people inhabiting Russia at the time of it's formation were an offbranch of the byzantines.

And Byzantium was, of course, just the eastern half of the fallen roman empire.


Correct me if I'm wrong..!

You're wrong, The Byzantiens didn't really control much of modern day russia, if any, certainly not where moscow now stands.

What happened is after Constantinople fell the Russians took over the Greek Orthodox church, which is now called Russian Orthodox. But this was like the 15th century.

 

[Peng Qi]

BYZANTINES WERE NOT BYZANTINES!!!!
They were Romans, they genetically where, they spoke roman and they thoguht of themselves as roman. Byzantine empire is a joke for the game and should be replaced by Poland.

Actually, the Byzantines were more Greek than Roman. Also, they're my favorite faction, so buzz off!

 

[Peng Qi]

Ethiopia/Abyssinia is one of the oldest settled countries in the world.
Ancient Kingdom of Dʿmt in 8th century B.C.
Aksumite Kingdom - long ascribed as one of the major powers of its time including Rome, China, Persia in the 1st century B.C.
Second oldest Christian kingdom.
Ancient hold of Judaism.
Kush is another famous kingdom of the region.
Fantastic ancient buildings from B.C.
Some wonderful castles from medieval period.

Hardly nothing.

You forgot "one of two countries in the entire world that weren't conquered or in other ways subjugated during the Era of Imperialism" and "only non-Western country to defeat a westernized army using a method other than attrition."

 

[Spearthrower]

You forgot "one of two countries in the entire world that weren't conquered or in other ways subjugated during the Era of Imperialism" and "only non-Western country to defeat a westernized army using a method other than attrition."

Very true and both good points!

 

[dzcoyle]

"Why does this game have too romes?"

More importantly, why have you spelled 2 "too"?

 

[axident]

Known world = World known to the Romans

I thought that that was fairly obvious, but you obviously don't get it. And would you care to explain how its 2000 years? I took it from Julius Caesar (c 50BC) to the sack of rome by the visigoths (410 AD). Of course, how ethnocentric of me to be using the Gregorian calendar. Maybe I should translate my dates into the Islamic calendar and the Chinese calendar?
I mean, its not like there's any point in using well known phrases to describe well known concepts. In fact, why don't we define every word we use to make sure that it will survive even the most pedantic examination?

"Known world" is itself not exactly an unbiased phrase. I know exactly what you meant and I told you exactly what I thought of it.

2000 for the Roman monarchy + Republic + Empire. Okay, if you meant the city of Rome then it was still dominant well before JC.

 

[Quotey]

"Why does this game have too romes?"

More importantly, why have you spelled 2 "too"?

I have something 100 times as important- why didn't you read the first post?

 

[dzcoyle]

Whether he saw the mistake afterwards is kind of beside the point, making the mistake in the first place is pretty jarring. And I didn't read the first post because it's just another whine about Romes in the game.

 

[Instant_Cereal]

Historians have long been astounded by the apparent "Easternisation of Rome" which has been going on now for quite some time. Recent estimates on the current location of Rome put it somewhere significantly east of the Urals. It is expected to pass through Beijing within 500 years, and will be located in San Francisco around 3500 AD.

I really at this. Thanks

 

[groan]

Ah political correctness.... how I hate thee.

 

[Evil Twin]

So because another country has a long human settlement that detracts from this one?

I'm saying that if age is truly a factor, why isn't Pakistan in Civ?

There are plenty of civs in this game that are there on the strength of their forebears.

Like?

Not that this is the case here as I was talking about Abyssinia which has been around a damn sight longer than Italy.

You don't really understand the concept of comparisons, do you?

It's called culture, tradition and history.... no matter what you think of the religion, it is still a value to be recognised.

Yes, too bad it's someone else's culture, tradition and history, which Ethiopia added nothing to for better or worse. At all.

In Ethiopia.

Again, as Rome was in Italy.

You've never heard of them? So why are you commenting? Ignorance does not an argument make.

No, nobody aside from apologists like you trying really really hard to think of a reason why Ethiopia should get in has heard of them.

Go do the research yourself, just dont make claims without looking into the facts first! I'm not being paid to educate you... I told you castles, it only takes you 2 minutes to type in "ethiopia" and "castle" and hit search - it might surprise you rather than speaking without any knowledge... it might challenge your obvious preconceptions/prejudices.

Don't assume that I didn't search. I merely didn't find anything of interest. Certainly not anything that would put Ethiopia above other civs.

And it would seem that your main objection here is that you know nothing about them and you know nothing about them because they are black. Seemingly you have a very large chip on your shoulder regarding other nations, seen a lot of racist remarks by you in the last couple of weeks.... this would appear to be another extension of those.

Heeheehee... hahahaha.

You can't prove a negative. Ethiopia is in thanks to it being one of the oldest human settlements in the world.

So again, where's Pakistan? Where's Palestine? Where's Nubia?

Its long history and culture are exactly the right type of material for a game like civ... especially when it challenges people to realise that the history they were taught as school ignores the wealth of human development in other areas of the world.

And I would support Ethiopia's inclusion.. if all the other civs mentioned got in first. How shall I put it... Ethiopia basically jumped the queue for the sake of political correctness.

 

[Evil Twin]

You forgot "one of two countries in the entire world that weren't conquered or in other ways subjugated during the Era of Imperialism" and "only non-Western country to defeat a westernized army using a method other than attrition."

Yeah, their diseases did the killing for them.
Woopdeedoo!

 

[Molon Labe]

Historians have long been astounded by the apparent "Easternisation of Rome" which has been going on now for quite some time. Recent estimates on the current location of Rome put it somewhere significantly east of the Urals. It is expected to pass through Beijing within 500 years, and will be located in San Francisco around 3500 AD.

Classic.