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Why include Portugal???
- Thread starter fsume93
- Start date
I used to regret the fact that you could only play with a fairly limited number of civs in one game in Civ II (7, if I remember correctly).
The fact that this has been increased to 16 is already a huge improvement.
It would be even better if the possibility had been foreseen to add, rather than replace, new civs. You could still play no more than 16 at any one time, and would have to adhere to the rules regarding combination of characteristics, but it would offer greater diversity and hopefully make discussions like this a lot shorter.
Portugal deserves its place in history and among the league of nations. As such, if I had - say - 100 spots to fill, Portugal would certainly be in there. I note that once again you are all obsessed with the military / economic dimension and completely ignore the cultural side of things. If you put Boston next to Porto on a civ map, guess, which one would flip...
And finally I give you : Nelly Furtado
The fact that this has been increased to 16 is already a huge improvement.
It would be even better if the possibility had been foreseen to add, rather than replace, new civs. You could still play no more than 16 at any one time, and would have to adhere to the rules regarding combination of characteristics, but it would offer greater diversity and hopefully make discussions like this a lot shorter.
Portugal deserves its place in history and among the league of nations. As such, if I had - say - 100 spots to fill, Portugal would certainly be in there. I note that once again you are all obsessed with the military / economic dimension and completely ignore the cultural side of things. If you put Boston next to Porto on a civ map, guess, which one would flip...
And finally I give you : Nelly Furtado
MoonSprite
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2002
- Messages
- 3
Hi there... been following this thread for a while and just wanted to add a few notes....
(Yes... I'm Portuguese, and no, I'm not anti-US....)
1 - Columbus was not portuguese, he was italian, born in Genoa.
2 - Magellan, however, was Portuguese... his expedition was financed by the Castillian Crown, true, and although he didn't survive the voyage, he empirically proved that the world was round....
3 - I say Castillian, not Spanish, 'cause spain didn't exist at that time....
4 - Regarding the discovery of the american continent, there is some evidence that MAYBE it wasn't columbus, but some Portuguese explorers, who discovered Labrador (named after one of them....) and Greenland.
5 - The Portuguese didn't live with the fear of being absorbed by the "Spanish"... we had our wars with our neighbours and won some and lost some, we also had our times of peace...
6 - At the apex of both empires, Portugal and "Spain" were the two most powerful empires, and the non-cristian world was divided amongst the two.
7 - Portugal wasn't part of "Spain" for most of it's history... it proclaimed it's independence from Leon (now a part of Spain) in 1143, and only lost that independence for 80-or-so years during which it was a separate country from Spain, but ruled by the same king.
Empires rise and fall... Babylon, Persia, Egypt, Greece, Celts, Mongolia, China, Japan, Rome, Byzantium, Portugal, Spain, France, England, Russia... all had their golden eras of power...
and if Babylon, Persia and Egypt represent ancient times, Rome and Greece classical times... Byzantium was a great empire of the Middle-Ages... England ruled in industrial times (late 18th century, 19th century), France had it's apex with Napoleon, Imperial Russia as well, and it endured during a good part of 20th century... the US are very powerful now... and Portugal and Spain are the most important empires from late 15th to mid/late 17th century...
What is the historical "value" of Portugal? Exploring about half the world, major scientific contributions (mostly in navigation technologies and techniques, military stuff... but in other areas as well... we do have a Nobel in medicine....) and culture (recently a Nobel in literature, several important poets, architecture, one of the worlds oldest Universities, etc....) and parts of that culture and language have spread all over the world....
We may have declined from our apex.... but that also happened to many other nations and empires... we may me a small country by the sea-side, but are more important that some of you have sugested...
(Yes... I'm Portuguese, and no, I'm not anti-US....)
1 - Columbus was not portuguese, he was italian, born in Genoa.
2 - Magellan, however, was Portuguese... his expedition was financed by the Castillian Crown, true, and although he didn't survive the voyage, he empirically proved that the world was round....
3 - I say Castillian, not Spanish, 'cause spain didn't exist at that time....
4 - Regarding the discovery of the american continent, there is some evidence that MAYBE it wasn't columbus, but some Portuguese explorers, who discovered Labrador (named after one of them....) and Greenland.
5 - The Portuguese didn't live with the fear of being absorbed by the "Spanish"... we had our wars with our neighbours and won some and lost some, we also had our times of peace...
6 - At the apex of both empires, Portugal and "Spain" were the two most powerful empires, and the non-cristian world was divided amongst the two.
7 - Portugal wasn't part of "Spain" for most of it's history... it proclaimed it's independence from Leon (now a part of Spain) in 1143, and only lost that independence for 80-or-so years during which it was a separate country from Spain, but ruled by the same king.
Empires rise and fall... Babylon, Persia, Egypt, Greece, Celts, Mongolia, China, Japan, Rome, Byzantium, Portugal, Spain, France, England, Russia... all had their golden eras of power...
and if Babylon, Persia and Egypt represent ancient times, Rome and Greece classical times... Byzantium was a great empire of the Middle-Ages... England ruled in industrial times (late 18th century, 19th century), France had it's apex with Napoleon, Imperial Russia as well, and it endured during a good part of 20th century... the US are very powerful now... and Portugal and Spain are the most important empires from late 15th to mid/late 17th century...
What is the historical "value" of Portugal? Exploring about half the world, major scientific contributions (mostly in navigation technologies and techniques, military stuff... but in other areas as well... we do have a Nobel in medicine....) and culture (recently a Nobel in literature, several important poets, architecture, one of the worlds oldest Universities, etc....) and parts of that culture and language have spread all over the world....
We may have declined from our apex.... but that also happened to many other nations and empires... we may me a small country by the sea-side, but are more important that some of you have sugested...
