Dreadnought
Deity
Why does history say Germany started World War 1? Didn't the Serbians start it when they assasinated the Arch-Duke?
Just wondering...
Just wondering...
Why is it said that Germany started WW1?
- Thread starter Dreadnought
- Start date
Germans or Serbs didnt started war. Its started nationalism and economic interests of all countries interested in. Most Austria-Hungary,Germany,Britain and France, after that they promise some advantages to other countries to help.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
It was probably either started with the Serbian assasination of Francis Ferdinand, or with the Austrian invasion of Serbia (since technically, speaking, Serbia didn't actually assasinate the Arch-Duke, a Serbian terrorist group did).
Dreadnought
Deity
Louis XXIV said:
Wasn't that group supported by the Serbian government?
On June 28, 1914, the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne, Archduke Francis Ferdinand, was assassinated in Sarajevo (Bosnia was then an Austrian province). For reasons too complicated to go into now, Serbia was accused of complicity in the assassination. For nearly a month, the Austrians didn't do anything except make threatening noises at Serbia. Finally, on July 23rd, the Austrians delivered a very humiliating ultimatum to Serbia with a 48 hour time limit. Amazingly the Serbians capitulated and, with one reservation, accepted the Austrian note six hours before the deadline.
The reservation, which Serbia offered to submit to international arbitration, was enough for Austria to declare war against Serbia on July 28th. Russia, which was the "protector" of Serbia, started mobilizing its army against Austria. Austria appealed to Germany for assistance against Russia.
Germany sent an ultimatum to Russia on July 31st demanding the demobilization of the Russian army within 12 hours. A second ultimatum, even more insulting, was sent to Paris: Berlin demanded that France ignore its obligations under the Dual Ententé, remain neutral in a Russo-German war and turn over the fortresses of Toul and Verdun as security for French neutrality.
At noon (Berlin time) on August 1st, the ultimatum to Russia expired without a Russian reply. Seven hours later the German ambassador delivered a declaration of war to the Russian foreign minister. War had begun in the East.
The Schlieffen Plan had been devised to deal with a two front war against France and Russia. The assumption was that Russian mobilization would be slow, so the bulk of the German army would deliver the coup de grâce to France in six weeks then turn around, cross Germany, and knock out Russia. I won't go into why this plan was actually unworkable but the salient fact for this discussion is that the Germans would go through the Belgian Plain to attack France.
Germany delivered an ultimatum to Belgium demanding, among other things, passage through Belgium. Belgium refused the ultimatum and appealed to Britain, one of the guarantors of Belgian neutrality, for assistance. Britain sent a note to Germany requesting that Belgian neutrality be observed. Kaiser Wilhelm ordered the Chief of the General Staff, von Moltke, to stop the invasion of Belgium. Moltke told Wilhelm this was impossible, that the 16th Infantry Division had already entered Luxembourg and two field armies were poised on the Belgian border. It was then discovered that the British note had been mistranslated. The Kaiser told Moltke, "you can now do what you like."
The reservation, which Serbia offered to submit to international arbitration, was enough for Austria to declare war against Serbia on July 28th. Russia, which was the "protector" of Serbia, started mobilizing its army against Austria. Austria appealed to Germany for assistance against Russia.
Germany sent an ultimatum to Russia on July 31st demanding the demobilization of the Russian army within 12 hours. A second ultimatum, even more insulting, was sent to Paris: Berlin demanded that France ignore its obligations under the Dual Ententé, remain neutral in a Russo-German war and turn over the fortresses of Toul and Verdun as security for French neutrality.
At noon (Berlin time) on August 1st, the ultimatum to Russia expired without a Russian reply. Seven hours later the German ambassador delivered a declaration of war to the Russian foreign minister. War had begun in the East.
The Schlieffen Plan had been devised to deal with a two front war against France and Russia. The assumption was that Russian mobilization would be slow, so the bulk of the German army would deliver the coup de grâce to France in six weeks then turn around, cross Germany, and knock out Russia. I won't go into why this plan was actually unworkable but the salient fact for this discussion is that the Germans would go through the Belgian Plain to attack France.
Germany delivered an ultimatum to Belgium demanding, among other things, passage through Belgium. Belgium refused the ultimatum and appealed to Britain, one of the guarantors of Belgian neutrality, for assistance. Britain sent a note to Germany requesting that Belgian neutrality be observed. Kaiser Wilhelm ordered the Chief of the General Staff, von Moltke, to stop the invasion of Belgium. Moltke told Wilhelm this was impossible, that the 16th Infantry Division had already entered Luxembourg and two field armies were poised on the Belgian border. It was then discovered that the British note had been mistranslated. The Kaiser told Moltke, "you can now do what you like."
Europe was like a tinderbox waiting to go off at that time. If it wasn't the assassination, something else would have set it off.
Vrylakas wrote a very good (and verbose) article on it. 
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=95423
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=95423
DBear
unbeliever
If Germany didn't start the war, why were they so harshly punished in the Treaty of Versailles? They virtually set up another war right there.
bloodofages
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2004
- Messages
- 597
Casue everybody was scared of the "Big boy" on the block..DBear said:
Nobody
Gangster
Germany didnt start the war, Russia, Serbia, and Austria and all just as much to blaim. Even France and Britian. The System of allainces that had been set up cause a local conflict to explode into a world war. The nation most responsable for the tense situation that lead to the war was Germany. Even germanys exsitance had destoyed the balance of power system that had kept the peace since the end of the napolean wars. (i know that there were some small war such as the Franco-Prussian war and the Crieman War.)
das
Regeneration In Process
The Germans started it, if indirectly. Kaiser Wilhelm II deliberately tried to provoke it before, but Kaiser Franz didn't support his plans for an invasion of Serbia to restore the Obrenoviches. Wilhelm however was able to influence Franz through the Erzherzog, an ardent supporter of that idea; not sure if the Erzherzog himself managed to persuade Franz to start the war, but Erzherzog's death while inspecting the troops in Sarajevo (what were they doing with so many troops on the Serbian border, I wonder...) did.
As for the Serbs - well, yes, there was the nationalism. But, basically, even if one puts the blame on the Serbs (one of the members of the Serb government happened to be the leader of the organization responsible for the assassination) or, much more plausibly, on the Austria-Hungarians who put up an outrageous ultimatum that not country could accept, one has to remember the person who used every opportunity to raise tensions, and without whom the Austrians wouldn't have dared make an issue of it - Kaiser Wilhelm II.
So, yes, Germany was to blame.
And I would call the Crimean War "small". Germany's very existance did put the balance in Europe upside down, but Bismarck postponed WWI for a few DECADES. That's an achievement.
As for the Serbs - well, yes, there was the nationalism. But, basically, even if one puts the blame on the Serbs (one of the members of the Serb government happened to be the leader of the organization responsible for the assassination) or, much more plausibly, on the Austria-Hungarians who put up an outrageous ultimatum that not country could accept, one has to remember the person who used every opportunity to raise tensions, and without whom the Austrians wouldn't have dared make an issue of it - Kaiser Wilhelm II.
So, yes, Germany was to blame.
And I would call the Crimean War "small". Germany's very existance did put the balance in Europe upside down, but Bismarck postponed WWI for a few DECADES. That's an achievement.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
DBear said:
Germany did much of the fighting and inflicted much of the casualties that France, Britain, and Russia faced (although nobody actually cared what Russia faced). Also, the other powers, had already lost considerable power through revolution or simply post-war territory distribution (the Austro-Hungarian Empire collapsed, creating Austria, Hungary, and a much larger Serbia in Yugoslavia. The Ottoman Empire was stripped of much of its territory, to create Arab Mandates for the British and French).
Germany, on the other hand, survived much better. They had a larger population than France, so, even with more casualties, had more able bodied men. Also, much of the war was on French and Belguim soil, not German. Because of these things, efforts to punish Germany in treaty were taken to make sure that they didn't wage war again. However, the treaty actually wasn't as punitive as some wanted it (France wanted to annex the Rhineland, Britain convinced them to just leave it demilitarized).
SeleucusNicator
Diadoch
I personally blame Russia; its mobilization basically forced the Germans into going ahead with the war.
Russia vowed to protect Serbia's independence from an earlier agreement. They were keeping to their part of the bargain. Still Russia refused to demobolize when Germany threatened war and things from then on just went downhill.
das
Regeneration In Process
The Germans - or rather, the bellicose Kaiser - needed an excuse to start a war. And they got it.
Either way, Russia had no choice but to mobilize, so technically its the fault of Austria-Hungary first and foremost; but Austria-Hungary was incited to do so by the Kaiser.
They cared in Russia, though. And in Serbia.
Either way, Russia had no choice but to mobilize, so technically its the fault of Austria-Hungary first and foremost; but Austria-Hungary was incited to do so by the Kaiser.
They cared in Russia, though. And in Serbia.
I must defend Serbians. Conditions to peace from Austria-Hungary were not totaly compatible with independent Serbia and it was test how may Austrians go far way off. Germany was punished because they lost. Winner take all. Russia must help Serbia as Britain must help Belgium and France must help Russia or Germany Austria-Hungary. But i am suggesting that war arised earlier or later and assanation had only minor effect.
Gabryel Karolin
Gammelgädda
The Germans lost, and so they started the war. It is always like that. The winners write the history books 
Jorge
Yo mismo
I think it was started by the terrorists that assasinated the Arch-Duke and the nations that supported rogue states like Serbia. At least that is what Bush would say.
Dreadnought
Deity
REDY said:
Due to the Triple Entente France would have to help Russia.
Anyway, didn't Russia make it the 'World War' by mobilizing? Since they brought France and Germany into the conflict. And thanks YNCS for the info!
Similar threads
