Why is monotheism an advance on polytheism?

Why is monotheism an advance on polytheism?

Because cathedrals give more ++plusses++ than temples is why.

In civ3 mysticism and polytheism are just there as filler techs to make monarchy more expensive and to put off the middle-ages.
Not everyone can get the Oracle afteral, but every civ needs these "techs" to advance to middle-ages.

The reli techs won't make sense any way you look at it. Those are purely there for the numbers game.
 
Because monotheistic religions tend to be more all-encompassing; in addition to the beleif system, they all have included from the start a complex moral code and guidelines for believers' every step of life. Polytheistic religions, on the other hand, had less of the all-encompassing belief system, at least at the beginning, and only later did they concern themselves with complex moral codes and how believers should live their lives.

These so called "primitives" have indeed moral codes. And surprise what! They really act like these moral codes tell them to do. They have their moral codes in themselves, they dont have to read it from the book. They dont have to read their religion from the book becouse their religion is in them. law or religion that is written in book is dead. Only religion and law within our living minds and hearts is real.

I think that monotheist religions are the lowest thing man has ever created. Their supporters tend to think black/white where as animists see things in a broader meaning. All life is sacred for animist, but for modern humanist/christian/muslim only humans matter. With this kind of attitudes we have destroyed out mother earth and eventually we will also destroy our selves. In fact, most of us are already dead - from the inside.
 
troytheface said:
We would have been mongol vassals? thats the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard. Mongol ponies invading the fijords of Norway would not have gotten far i suspect. Likewise invading England would have been a trick since they had a lousy record at invading isle folk.

I should know better than to respond to a troll....

Why would they care to invade Norway? There's not a whole lot they would want there.

"a lousy record" meaning that all that saved Japan was a single fortuitous storm.

The Mongols wouldn't have been able to hold on to their holdings in the long run; there just weren't enough of them. They wouldn't have been defeated; they would get assimilated, as happened in China, Russia, Persia, etc.
 
Inhalaattori said:
I think that monotheist religions are the lowest thing man has ever created. Their supporters tend to think black/white where as animists see things in a broader meaning. All life is sacred for animist, but for modern humanist/christian/muslim only humans matter. With this kind of attitudes we have destroyed out mother earth and eventually we will also destroy our selves. In fact, most of us are already dead - from the inside.


Although you are right imo to assume that monotheism is more of a fabrication than animism- in the sense that monotheism, as i stated before, and as some other poster also noted, brings into play also collective imaginations and views about notions and therefore distances the individual even more from the core of his "spiritual belief", this doesnt change the fact however that in animism that spiritual core is still formed by the same imaginary processes, and cannot be said to be any more true than the monotheistic beliefs. Your feelings towards "nature" for example arent feelings towards nature-itself, but feelings towards your notion of nature. A notion is something formed by your mind, and something which moreover had a basis for its formation, both in your dna (through the fact that your ancestors also had formed a notion of nature) and in your own upbringing, since you first formed a logical notion of nature (the emotional understanding of it predated the logical ofcourse; no baby uses logic) when you were a child.
It must be clear that no one other person on earth has exactly the same understanding of nature as you, and therefore even if you get together with another one who is fond of nature still you wouldnt be loving the same thing; the other person would be feeling and thinking of his own individual concept of nature, and you of your own. Even if you had expressed your appreciation of it in the same words still you wouldnt be referring at all to the same thing.

In conclusion an animistic belief was/is closer to being sunk in one's own subconscious than a monotheistic belief, for the simple reason that the monotheist cannot help being bound to more social concepts. However a real believer in monotheism will have inevitably some animistic elements in his belief, just like a modern animist will inevitably have some monotheistic, if only due to the mere impossibility of not being partly also a reaction to monotheism.

My understanding is that all "spiritual beliefs" are in essence false though.
 
I just had this thought...

:coffee:

If the game's depiction of monotheism as being an "upgrade" from polytheism is any indication, there are theories that the Israelites were polytheistic prior to their adopting monotheistic Judaism. It was suggested by someone that the sect favoring the god Yahweh forced out all competitors, thus laying the groundwork for the modern faiths based upon that original sect (Judaism, Christianity and Islam). There are scattered remnants of pre-Israelite shrines found in the region that are being used to support this theory.

About modern Hinduism, I guess I should plead guilty to some ignorance of it. For all the variety of dieties contained therein, I vaguely recall now the part in the story of the goddess (Devi?) who liberated the heavens from a demon who had driven out the other gods, including the trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, who led the call to a higher diety that sprung forth as the warrior-goddess. By this, I suppose is what you meant by "God is everything".

The theory that the most ancient religion was a form of animism as represented by cave paintings makes sense in how I view things. This goes back, again, to what others have said about the origins of ancient Egypt, where rock paintings discovered in the Libyan desert point to an origin of the hieroglyphs used by the Egyptians. Given what is known about the prehistory of northern Africa (what is the Sahara desert today once supported an extensive river system and fertile plains), I might not be surprised if the ancestors of the Egyptians originally lived as hunter-gatherers among the grasslands until desertification that followed the last ice age forced them towards the Nile river valley and made necessary the development of agriculture that was practiced in that environment. It would only be a natural step for the animal-cults to then be combined under the pantheon of gods and goddesses (Horus the hawk, Set the cobra and hippopotamus, etc).

In fact, you could see a variety of different religious systems which cover the spectrum of such thought even into contemporary times. Animism as represented by African tribes and Australian aborigines, Shamanism in the Americas and amongst Japanese Shinto, a pantheistic religion in Hinduism and the three monotheistic religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Conversely, you know have a "religion" (more accurately, near-religious belief) in secular humanism, where God -- in any form, whatsoever -- simply doesn't exist and only human beings represent a pinnacle of existence. In other words, atheism.
 
I think that the key difference with religion this time around (Aside from the fact that it is represented in-game) is that though monotheism leads on from Polytheism, there is no longer any absolute need to get Monotheism once you have either Polytheism or Meditation-or what have you. This essentially means that-for the first time-Monotheism is not being represented as an advance on polytheism-merely as a possible progression of thought from one step to another.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
 
Brain said:
This is the main reason for my objection. Given that many people from various cultures read these forums and that in many cultures "sect" is a very pejorative term I think the comment was inapropriate.
Catholicism is a sect of Christianity. The largest and oldest, but still a sect of Christianity. That you are offended by this simple fact is amusing; that you think the rest of the world should change its language to privilige your particular religion over everyone else's is kind of scary.
 
Jazzmail said:
Why is monotheism an advance on polytheism?

Because cathedrals give more ++plusses++ than temples is why.
The best reason offered in this entire thread.

:)
 
the mongles whold have crushed richered!
thers no chain, or a very short chain of comand besides the king.. isolate the kings and u have defeated the army.. something that the mogels solved. makeing them a much tuffer opponent. not only that, ther troops whearnt all conscripts. richerd may have had a few well trained knighst, but besides that ther all farmer jhons, pulled away from thear farms, handed a spear and told to fight as thay piss them selfs in fear.
 
Monotheism faiths, Islam,Judism,Christianity, etc. resulted in more followers and more organized clergy than Polytheistic faiths. Also, monotheistic faiths were able to spread to far areas unlike local polytheistic faiths.
 
My two cents (partly gleaned from Tom Robbins and Jared Diamond, so not necessarily scholarly opinions with the possible exception of Diamond), is that it wasn't monotheism per se that made the 'big three', Christianity, Judeism, and Islam, so successful. These religions became patriarchal (not a necessity for a monotheistic belief system), which arguably made them less laid back.

Secondly, they happened to arise at the perfect place geographically and historically for their respective cultures to be a) expansionist and b) technologically advanced and c) have already been exposed to many important diseases. Thus they could use a combination of "guns, germs and steel" (to borrow the term from Diamond's book) to impose their religion on other cultures.

Are monotheisms improvements over polytheisms? who knows besides G-d(s). Did some monotheisms use brutal means to convert people of other faiths? Most definitely. Slavery, epidemics, and a technological advantage allowed for a pretty aggressive ministry at least in the New World, and I'd say is a reason why especially Central and South America show an incredible Christian majority.

I'm not sure using the numbers game is a valid argument for saying that they are better. I will certainly agree they have used some very persuasive forms of 'salesmanship' in the past.
 
Patriarchy, now that's something I missed... But of course, it is wrong to single out Christianity for the exploitation of the natives of america and other places. Not that it can happen to any religion, but religions that doesn't justify a ruler's extortion of their people rarely get government support, and don't often spread far.

The point is that putting stuff like ceremonial burial, and mysticism is all fine and well, but by making polytheism and monotheism technology, and then making one more more "advanced" then the other you are being idiodic. If monotheism is "more encompassing" then why isn't that just another technology?

Code:
Ceremonial Burial-> Mysticism-> Established Church (instead of monotheism)
                         \
                         V
                  State Religion (instead of polytheism)
 
I think that monotheist religions are the lowest thing man has ever created. Their supporters tend to think black/white where as animists see things in a broader meaning. All life is sacred for animist, but for modern humanist/christian/muslim only humans matter. With this kind of attitudes we have destroyed out mother earth and eventually we will also destroy our selves. In fact, most of us are already dead - from the inside.

I agree. Some people seem to think that there is some kind of "religious evolution" in the following line: animism-shamanism-polytheism-monotheism-atheism. But there is no such "evolution". Animism does not automatically lead to shamanism, shamanism does not automatically lead to polytheism, polytheism does not automatically lead to monotheism, and monotheism does not automatically lead to atheism. It's a simplification which holds no truth.
If there is one thing that complicates this way of reasoning it's the rise of philosophy. The Greek philosophers created advanced systems by building on more "primitive" conceptions of reality. One could say that by making these systems more "rational" they also made them more artificial. And it's from the time of roughly 600-300 BC (the so-called Axial Age, according to Karl Jaspers) that most religious concepts we know and use today were invented: like angels, heaven, "true" monotheism, the devil, and so on.
The seventh to the fourth centuries BC was a period of remarkable intellectual progress, both in India and Greece, as well as in China. While the Greeks created "philosophy" (love of wisdom) Buddha preached a radical new faith in India, which excluded the gods, and at the same in China Taoism and Confucianism were being formed. Where exactly would Buddhism fit in the theory of "religious evolution" if it went from polytheism to atheism without first passing monotheism?
The problem arose with the advanced speculation (philosophy) during this era. The more rational a system is the more artificial it becomes. It tries to explain the unexplainable, and by doing so it creates a system, and a system often leads to an ideology, and an ideology often leads to a certain way of life. And as usual, when humans develop a complex system, adherence to that system becomes more than life itself, and after a while it's no longer worth just living for the system, but also to kill for it. And thus intolerance is born. And we have also seen what the monotheistic systems leads to: crusades, inquisition, witch-burnings, religious wars, jihad, suicide-bombings, et cetera. It was much easier with the "primitive" systems: no one would get killed because he thought that the god of thunder and lightning was more powerful than the god of the sea, for instance.
Back in the old, "primitive" days they said that the soul was in everything (hence: animism), today the monotheist say that their god is in everything, while a Buddhist would say that nothing is in the objects, and he would be correct too. The difference is that originally all the objects were seen as equals: man was no different from a bird or a tree, or even a stone. But through further speculation humans came to think of themselves as better than everything else; and their gods, who were personifications of the elements (storm, flood, drought, and so on), had to be anthropomorphic (i.e. human, like themselves). These supernatural creatures were further elevated at the height of polytheism, where many things, and not just natural phenomena, were seen as gods; for instance: gods of wars, and trade, and wine. By this time the immortal gods had become so abstract and so distant from the humans that it seemed they no longer mattered in ordinary life.
There is definitely a tendency away from the closeness between "gods" and humans of old, and the increased distance in more "enlightened" times, as if a close god had fallen into the realm of superstition, a closeness which was seen as unbelievable. If anything it's a rationalisation of everyday life, and not of some kind of religious development.
As humans became more aware of their surroundings and tried to explain natural phenomena with "science" they ceased to believe that the gods were behind everything. The boundaries of the unknown were constantly pushed back until the point where there no longer was a place for the gods neither on the surface of the planet, nor in the Netherworld. And thus the astral religion was created, and from that: Heaven (as separated from the sky, the Greeks spoke of the Ether).
Pythagoras was the mastermind behind much of that development. In the Odyssey and in the Gilgamesh Epic the world was still flat, with the realm of the dead placed at the very edge of the world, far away from the living. But Pythagoras changed all that. He created a peculiar religion based both on superstition and science, and was the first to contend that the Earth was round. Pythagoras spoke of the 'Harmony of the Spheres', divine music generated by the heavenly bodies (the gods seen as planets), which only he could hear (since he was divine). When people died their souls went up to the Ether (Heaven) where it stayed until it was sent back to a new body (reincarnation). And this reincarnation was not just limited to humans, but it was a process that all living beings were submitted to. Platon developed these ideas further in Phaedrus.
So clearly, there is not a question of RELIGIOUS development, but rather of philosophical speculation, which Christianity, among others, picked up and used bits of, like the Greek concept of heaven/ether, but not reincarnation, because reincarnation has no place in the Christian credo; so to the religions philosophy/science is nothing but a smorgasbord where you can take whatever you want, and ignore the rest. And these religions, which use these speculations for their own advantage, rapidly become locked in time (conserved), and unable to adjust their "philosophy" to new ideas, new speculations, which is the main reason so many intellectuals, like Giordano Bruno, were killed by the Unholy Dogmatic Church, because his (Pythagorean) views did not fit in with their "philosophy".
I sometimes wonder if it's inevitable that all religions must become conservative and anti-progressive, and if only new religious movements can incorporate the latest philosophical ideas into their faith. Either way, religions and philosophies should be kept separate. They can cross-breed for a time, but in the long run religion is bound to turn against philosophical speculation.
Finally, I would just like to point out that not all religions are as intolerant as Christianity: Buddhism, for instance, does not burn people at the cross... eh, I mean: at the stake, for having a mind of their own. Religious intolerance was created by, and limited to monotheism. Buddhism is a living proof that not all of the more advanced systems have to be intolerant, nor artificial.
 
Maybe you ought to do a little more research. Religious intolerance is not restricited to monotheism. Look at the Gujarat riots for a recent example of Hinduism gone intolerant.

Even your beloved Buddhism has shown much intolerance and violence to other faiths. Look up Sinhala Urumaya for just one violent sect.

These are modern day examples, I am not so uninformed to think that religious violence is a new thing.
 
Buddists are mainly peaceful, there are exceptions to every group. Thats like saying America is racist because the KKK exsits.
 
Monotheism began with Judaism.
In Egypt, Babylon, and in all of Southwest Asia every culture had a pantheon of gods 3500 years ago. Judaism became the exception and has since outlasted these other religions. Hence Monotheism comes after Polytheism.

Why does Monotheism require Polytheism? When the Ancient Hebrew Judges ran into trouble with their neighbors they called for help from Yahweh (God). If they succeeded (i.e. Elijah defeated 700 prophets of Baal) the people (mostly Hebrews) would say 'I get it' and turn from their polytheistic ways to monotheism.
Of course, this is probably how many ancient people changed religions. The best documentation, however, comes from the Bible. That all percolates back to the fact that Judaism>Christianity>Islam all outlasted these polytheist religions. Otherwise, we would have heard of their exploits over, say, monotheistic religions.
 
Yahzi said:
Catholicism is a sect of Christianity. The largest and oldest, but still a sect of Christianity. That you are offended by this simple fact is amusing; that you think the rest of the world should change its language to privilige your particular religion over everyone else's is kind of scary.

Sorry, but you miss Brains point. The word "sect" is the problem. If you had called sunni-muslims for a sect of islam I would have thought it odd too, because to me a sect is a mostly small (exception: scientology), but definetly evil (in someway or another) group of somewhat religious people. That might be me putting to much into the english word "sect", but the danish word "sekt" means just that. I guess many other languages in this languagegroup share this view.

But I also know that because danish isn't english and chinese isn't bulgarian such misunderstandings is bound to happen and I would never be offended if you called protestants (I'm one) a sect (or a "sekt"). Life is too short for that. I might try to find the reason for the misunderstanding, and by that perhaps become better at speaking/writing english.

Best regards

Firebird
 
henry k c said:
Buddists are mainly peaceful, there are exceptions to every group. Thats like saying America is racist because the KKK exsits.

Or like saying that Christians burn people on the stake. Christians are mainly peaceful also.
 
"i don't think monotheism is more advanced than polytheism”
And is democracy more advanced or better than fascism? It is based on the quality of the administration. As governments have influence on society so does religion, but the impact of the religion does not come from the bible or myths of the polytheistic gods, but from the administration of the religion. If the administration of a certain religion is good at spreading the word and, in some cases, manipulating people into accepting and embracing the religion into their lives, then it is good (or at least influential).

So to answer the question it does appear that the monotheistic administration (and therefore the religion(s)) is currently more advanced and organised than the polytheistic, but that does not have anything to do with Jesus.
 
Sect means something "evil", i trust in all languages. And it isn't needed to say that catholicism is the oldest anything in christianity, it just was its first division from the 'unified' faith which managed to survive, like protestantism was a latter one. There certainly were a lot older attempts for a division, but those were crushed by the byzantine empire, and surely if the byz empire could just attack northern italy and crush catholicism it would do just that. But it couldnt, which is the only reason why catholicism developed to be a clear division, and not because a non existant god wanted it etc. In reality there is no union amongs catholics. orthodox or anyone else, apart from the one provided by their imagination, much like the equally shallow and imaginary unity that soccer fans may feel on a field.
 
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