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Why isn't there an economic victory?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Art Morte, Dec 7, 2017 at 6:50 AM.

  1. Art Morte

    Art Morte Chieftain

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    You have victory conditions for science, culture and faith yields, so why not for gold, i.e. economy?

    It could be something like having gpt higher than all others combined - or over 50% of all others combined if 101% is too much. Or it could be depositing gold throughout the game towards a certain target that could be fixed or fluctuating. You "fill the bank", you win an economic victory.

    I think the game's missing a trick by not having an economic victory.
     
  2. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Warlord

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    I really don't feel that this game needs another victory condition where the goal is just to have a bigger number than everyone else. If someone can come up with a concept that isn't just "make loads of money", then I might be persuaded, but the whole concept is rather unappealing.

    At least with Science and Culture victories you have the fantasy that you've built a rocket to go to Mars, or filled your museums with great works and Wonders. Sitting on top of a huge pile of unused gold just doesn't have the same satisfaction to me.
     
  3. bbbt

    bbbt Warlord

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    I second that I find a straight 'bucket fill' victory not that interesting - I definitely prefer them 'dressed up' a bit. I think it's one of the reasons I didn't find Endless Legend that compelling when it launched.

    I'm hoping them come out with an interesting implementation of a corporation mechanic in an expansion and use that to implement a economic victory.

    Or they could do something like they implement a currency system and made that the economic victory (have your currency become the default currency for everyone). I'm not sure how that would work gameplay-wise though, as Civ has never had any sort of realistic economic model. And going too far down that path would probably appeal to 10% of the people and annoy the other 90% ("It's now 10x more expensive to buy anything as your currency has massive inflation!")
     
    Uberfrog likes this.
  4. stinkubus

    stinkubus Chieftain

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    You need ton of gold and cogs (economy) for science victory. I' argue science victory *IS* economic victory.
     
  5. Rosty K

    Rosty K Chieftain

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    Exactly.
     
  6. Art Morte

    Art Morte Chieftain

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    The game is mostly just mathematics, getting bigger and bigger numbers. All victory conditions are based on that. I suppose you could have 'economic projects' either throughout the game or then in the end (like space race projects) that you need to spend gold to complete. Create global enterprises and financial institutions to win an economic victory. There's no way it wouldn't be based on getting bigger and bigger numbers, though, that's what Civ is.


    The difference is that going for science victory gives you new buildings and units faster, too. If you had to prioritize gold instead of science, it would be a strategic trade-off, i.e. not exactly the same as science victory.
     
  7. MrRadar

    MrRadar Chieftain

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    There was an economic victory in SMAC. If you had enough cash, you could try cornering the world market, i. e. buying out the rest of the world. The rest of the world then had 20 turns to take your capital to prevent it. SMAC did not have great people though, and if such a model is ported in Civ6, probably it would still be cheaper just to buy Sagan+Kwolek.

    'Economic projects' just as gold sinks without any other content to them resemble too much the 'Utopia project' of pre-BNW Civ V. Not very inspiring.
    The game could use some sort of corporation system, along the Civ4 lines or with some variations, and then you could try to spread their power across the world, but that would be like the current religious victory in another dressing.

    Or it could be required to recruit the majority of GM and build key economic World wonders, monopolize or get majority of the world's luxury market, recruit Steve Jobs and flood the world with iPhones, etc.

    However, for now, I think I am fine with economy 'just' being a major factor in science, domination and, perhaps, couple of other victories, without its own dedicated victory condition. I'd much prefer if they nerfed scaling-up of chopping or the whole chopping thing in general. The thought alone that you can get science victory in one turn drains much of the incentive of playing on in the late game or doing anything else apart of that, much like it was with GS hoarding in Civ V.
     
    Arent11 likes this.
  8. stinkubus

    stinkubus Chieftain

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    Chopping is definitely OP, but without it late game districts would be incredibly difficult to build, so nerfing that requires reexamination of another mechanic.
     
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  9. Returning Lurker

    Returning Lurker Chieftain

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    Pshh, an economic victory? When has MONEY ever had an impact on politics? It's not like hundreds of nations and tribes throughout history have attempted to establish trade hegemonies to put themselves in a politically untouchable position and subjugate their enemies through the control of valuable resources and the flow of said resources. It's much better to have a race towards colonizing Mars, a thing that every country has totally been going for for thousands of years, back when they thought Mars was just some Roman knockoff of Ares. Because colonizing Mars means you totally take over Earth. Somehow.
     
  10. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    Something that just depends on getting lots of money would not be worth implementing, imho.

    But I know some mods in both V and VI have played around with the concept of monopolies on various resources, and you can create a victory condition from that (I haven't actually played any such mods).

    Corporations in some form could potentially be involved as well, as long as they're not too much like religions.
     
  11. Arent11

    Arent11 Chieftain

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    I want the "corner global energy market" from alpha centauri ;)
     
  12. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

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    I would accept an Economic victory if it involved Corporations. Become a Mega-Corporation and dominate the globe!
     
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  13. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    That would basically be vaniila Civ 5's diplo victory. It is not as good as it sounds.
     
  14. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

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    You mean the Economic Victory in general or my idea for an Economic victory?
     
  15. Naktis

    Naktis Chieftain

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    Well the only way Economic win you could get I reckon is through DEBTS , which could be great mechanic in game , for example u have free gold , you can offer other civ to borrow so they can start war or smth...BUT AI sucks with gold spending so lending gold for them would be worthless anyway...
     
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  16. ferretbacon

    ferretbacon Chieftain

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    An economic victory could be implemented in the next expansion (either that or diplomatic).

    I feel it would tie in well with the return of Corporations/Companies. They'd become available in the Renaissance and could provide some customizable perks a la religion. They'd be tied to the procurement and monopolization of luxury resources.

    The goal would be to corner the market on a particular resource (say, control more than half the world's supply of spices) which would empower your company if successful and then proceed to overcome other civ's Corporations through mergers/acquisitions.

    You'd win the game through some combination of having a widely successful corporation, possessing a large standing treasury, and generating a large GPT amount.
     
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  17. stinkubus

    stinkubus Chieftain

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    Meh, I kind of like that resources like spices are super important in ancient era but almost meaningless by the time you get to modern. It's not like salt and spice traders are the wealthiest most powerful people on earth anymore.
     
  18. ferretbacon

    ferretbacon Chieftain

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    Sure, modern day companies have moved on to electronics, automobiles, etc. But older merchant companies started in the spice trade, the fur trade, the silk trade, etc. The underlying presumption in the later game is that your company has evolved/diversified away from those resources, but the game currently lacks the nuance to represent later era commodities.
     
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  19. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Chieftain

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    The only way I could see it working is somehow you have to have every Civ owe you enough money through trade deals, that they end up going bankrupt. But I don't see it realistically happening in the game.
     
  20. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Was replying to topic
     

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