[NFP] Why shall we eliminate other Civs?

[Lily_Lancer]

There may be a lot of reasons for us to eliminate other Civs. But what is the real reason?

1: Afraid of enemy being too strong. This is nonsense-- Even if you don't do wars you can still overrun your enemy in tech or civic for multiple eras.

2: To get its cities and yields. This is a good reason. However, sometimes even if an AI doesn't build good cities, and yield very little, we still wish to eliminate it. Also, usually we don't leave him with the last city, just eliminate him.

3: For diplomacy. This is the main point-- Everyone has a lot of free envoys and an Amani, so can guaranteen control of at least 1 city state. City-state bonuses are insanely strong in Civ6, and if every AI suzerains 1 of his nearby city-state with 10+ envoys using fully-upgraded Amani we have few CS left for us.
Also, as long as he is alive, he can vote on the world congress to against us. The vote is a free vote for him, but we have to spend quite a lot to overcome the negative effects,

Eliminating a Civ eliminates his Amani, hence frees a CS for us to suzerain, and therefore we get the bonus. Also eliminates his chance of voting in the world Congress so the resolutions are more under control. This is the main reason for us to eliminate a Civ-- for diplomacy benefits.

 

[8housesofelixir]

IMHO the main reason why many players tend to eliminate other civs is always that they can gain more cities/more yields, and playing wide is the metagame of Civ 6.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

Your reasons for eliminating civs for diplo reasons are all out of date. You can't play that way anymore.

With the Antarctic Summer update, you can generate negative diplomatic favor from grievances, up to -10 favor a turn.

On top of that, with the May 2020 update you now have -5 diplo favor per enemy capital captured.

So no, you can't just conquer everyone and get a diplo victory like you're saying. It's been like this for a quite a while now.

 

[Tech Osen]

No no, my main reason is because a civ won't freaking stop converting my cities!

 

[salty mud]

To win a domination victory?

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Your reasons for eliminating civs for diplo reasons are all out of date. You can't play that way anymore.

With the Antarctic Summer update, you can generate negative diplomatic favor from grievances, up to -10 favor a turn.

On top of that, with the May 2020 update you now have -5 diplo favor per enemy capital captured.

So no, you can't just conquer everyone and get a diplo victory like you're saying. It's been like this for a quite a while now.

I've been playing diplo victories since the update now, and I can confirm that the -5 has very little effect against a diplo victory(especially with Pagoda). Conquering everyone is still the best way for diplo victory.

And you're not to the point, the main reason for elimination is to eliminate an Amani so that you can suzerain one or more city-states, and enjoy the insane CS bonus.

 

[AriochIV]

No matter what kind of victory you're pursuing, more cities is better. Once all the available land is claimed, the only way to increase your base (which will almost always be smaller than the top AI civ) is to attack someone and take their land.

Essentially, lebensraum.

 

[Vandlys]

There may be a lot of reasons for us to eliminate other Civs. But what is the real reason?

1: Afraid of enemy being too strong. This is nonsense-- Even if you don't do wars you can still overrun your enemy in tech or civic for multiple eras.

2: To get its cities and yields. This is a good reason. However, sometimes even if an AI doesn't build good cities, and yield very little, we still wish to eliminate it. Also, usually we don't leave him with the last city, just eliminate him.

3: For diplomacy. This is the main point-- Everyone has a lot of free envoys and an Amani, so can guaranteen control of at least 1 city state. City-state bonuses are insanely strong in Civ6, and if every AI suzerains 1 of his nearby city-state with 10+ envoys using fully-upgraded Amani we have few CS left for us.
Also, as long as he is alive, he can vote on the world congress to against us. The vote is a free vote for him, but we have to spend quite a lot to overcome the negative effects,

Eliminating a Civ eliminates his Amani, hence frees a CS for us to suzerain, and therefore we get the bonus. Also eliminates his chance of voting in the world Congress so the resolutions are more under control. This is the main reason for us to eliminate a Civ-- for diplomacy benefits.

What is the real reason? For diplomacy is the main point? Well. Not for me : ) Guess I play my games differently from yours.

 

[leandrombraz]

Conquering everyone is still the best way for diplo victory

The best way is to pre-build the Statue of Liberty into it's 1 turn from being finished, then finish it in the first post-modern congress, so the AI don't all vote against you, since they only vote for you to lose once you have 15 or more points. You get to win the diplo vote, just the same as if you eliminate everyone, but with a lot less effort and risk, and you get to play the diplo victory diplomatically, which is the point of playing it in the first place. Playing the diplo victory like a domination victory is pointless. You might as well just win domination and be done with it sooner. Not to mention that the Devs are actively trying to prevent the diplo victory of being won through undiplomatic strategies, so if eliminating everyone was actually the best way and it became a popular strategy, it's just a matter of time into the Devs do something else to prevent it. The thing is supposed to be played diplomatically, just give in.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

I've been playing diplo victories since the update now, and I can confirm that the -5 has very little effect against a diplo victory(especially with Pagoda). Conquering everyone is still the best way for diplo victory.

And you're not to the point, the main reason for elimination is to eliminate an Amani so that you can suzerain one or more city-states, and enjoy the insane CS bonus.

The math doesn't add up though. FXS has made specific changes to counteract the strategy you are doing. A while back, it was possible to exploit it like you're claiming, but it's not viable anymore.

Say you conquer one civ completely. Even with pagodas, you have to have a holy site + shrine + temple to build the +1 DF pagoda, so you have to have 5 pagodas just to cancel it out. Five fully built holy sites. If the AI civ doesn't build it, you have to make it yourself.

That's not counting whatever negative DF you get from grievances.

The more you conquer civs outright, the more negative DF you'll be accumulating. That's just how it is now. I know conquering will get you more yields (Science,/Culture/etc.) And I totally understand how you can win like that, but with Diplo they explicitly changed it to prevent it and again, the math doesn't add up and I don't see how you can runaway with a huge positive diplomatic favor to get an easy Diplo Victory.

 

[Bibor]

I sometimes cruelly leave their last city to die to loyalty pressure. No doubt, wiping out a civ is beneficial. Their diplomatic power is always a thorn, especially envoys.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

No matter what kind of victory you're pursuing, more cities is better. Once all the available land is claimed, the only way to increase your base (which will almost always be smaller than the top AI civ) is to attack someone and take their land.

Essentially, lebensraum.

For all types of victory except for Diplo. You can accelerate science, culture, even religious victory through conquest, except for Diplo, because the game actively punishes you for doing so.

1) You can negate your Diplomatic favor through too many grievances.
2) You get -5 DF for every capital you capture.

Warmonger too much and it doesn't matter how many CS you suzerain or how many pagodas you have, you'll be in the negatives.

 

[Hans Castorp]

Libido dominandi.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

The math doesn't add up though. FXS has made specific changes to counteract the strategy you are doing. A while back, it was possible to exploit it like you're claiming, but it's not viable anymore.

Say you conquer one civ completely. Even with pagodas, you have to have a holy site + shrine + temple to build the +1 DF pagoda, so you have to have 5 pagodas just to cancel it out. Five fully built holy sites. If the AI civ doesn't build it, you have to make it yourself.

That's not counting whatever negative DF you get from grievances.

The more you conquer civs outright, the more negative DF you'll be accumulating. That's just how it is now. I know conquering will get you more yields (Science,/Culture/etc.) And I totally understand how you can win like that, but with Diplo they explicitly changed it to prevent it and again, the math doesn't add up and I don't see how you can runaway with a huge positive diplomatic favor to get an easy Diplo Victory.

Remember you get 50 favor per turn upon researching future civic in late game, so you always have enough favor for the last +2 resolution.

 

[cylenalag]

Sometimes I just eliminate a Civ because I can.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

The best way is to pre-build the Statue of Liberty into it's 1 turn from being finished, then finish it in the first post-modern congress, .

I bet you never tried that, just plain talk, like what you've always been doing. You're expecting nobody else has built the industrial wonder on T205?

Either you eliminate most Civs, or you have to use a "AI not build wonder" mod to achieve that (or maybe that's what you're routinely using when posting things?)

 

[leandrombraz]

I bet you never tried that, just plain talk, like what you've always been doing. You're expecting nobody else has built the industrial wonder on T205?

Either you eliminate most Civs, or you have to use a "AI not build wonder" mod to achieve that (or maybe that's what you're routinely using when posting things?)

Not only I tried that but it's a strategy that others are using. To prevent the AI from building it, you just need to avoid making friendship with AIs that might build the wonder this early (leaders with the wonder obsessed agenda and leaders that are doing well enough to unlock it early), send a couple of naval units near their cities and keep an eye on them. If they start building the wonder and it seems that they will finish it before the congress, just declare war and put a naval unit on the wonder tile, which will prevent them from building it.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Your reasons for eliminating civs for diplo reasons are all out of date. You can't play that way anymore.

With the Antarctic Summer update, you can generate negative diplomatic favor from grievances, up to -10 favor a turn.

On top of that, with the May 2020 update you now have -5 diplo favor per enemy capital captured.

So no, you can't just conquer everyone and get a diplo victory like you're saying. It's been like this for a quite a while now.

Unless you build Pagodas (+1 favor per turn) So 5 pagodas lets you take out 1 civ.

Been trying it for a Saladin meme victory since he doesn't care about the actual worship building, but would like better results.

 

[monikernemo]

Your reasons for eliminating civs for diplo reasons are all out of date. You can't play that way anymore.

Nah diplomacy in his context is gaining control over other city states. Eliminating an entire civ to gain suzerain is Abit extreme, but very reasonable still.

 

[Minou]

The "real" reason depends of course on what type of victory you are aiming for. I never play Diplomatic Victory (too boring and I hate the randomness of trying to guess how the AI will vote or whether an aid request will pop) unless it is a GOTM but I certainly kill the AIs in Diplomacy both to win faster and because I get so mad at their stupid voting patterns.

For Science though, gaining Suzerain abilities is a real factor. It's well worth it to wipe out another Civ to gain Suzerain status over a City State like Rapa Nui (or ironically Geneva).