Why the AI is Hostile:

[Pouakai]

First, let's take a look at the diplomatic modifiers which can improve your relationship:
-We have a DoF
-We have a DoF with the same people
-We denounced the same people
-You freed their captured citizens

Now, the negative modifiers
-They covet land of yours
-They covet wonders you built
-You're expanding to agressively
-You denounced them
-They denounced you
-You refused a request after making a DoF
-Your friends found reason to denounce you
-You denounced a friend
-You demanded the not settle near you
-You broke a promise to not settle near them
-You're a warmonger

And I'm sure there are more. Now, what do we need to fix the AI? Simply more positive modifiers, i.e.

-We're at war with the same person
-You agreed to a request after a DoF was made
-We have good trade deals
-You were merciful

And some more couldn't go amiss.

 

[Bradicus]

First, let's take a look at the diplomatic modifiers which can improve your relationship:
-We have a DoF
-We have a DoF with the same people
-We denounced the same people
-You freed their captured citizens

Now, the negative modifiers
-They covet land of yours
-They covet wonders you built
-You're expanding to agressively
-You denounced them
-They denounced you
-You refused a request after making a DoF
-Your friends found reason to denounce you
-You denounced a friend
-You demanded the not settle near you
-You broke a promise to not settle near them
-You're a warmonger

And I'm sure there are more. Now, what do we need to fix the AI? Simply more positive modifiers, i.e.

-We're at war with the same person
-You agreed to a request after a DoF was made
-We have good trade deals
-You were merciful

And some more couldn't go amiss.

I absolutely could not agree more with you! I mean... really... if you can get dinged for doing something wrong/bad... you should be rewarded for doing something right/good!

On a related note: Why is it the computer can demand things as a friend and when it is refused it does not like you, yet when you request/demand something as a friend they also do not like you? It's not a 2-way street!

Also, how does backstabbing work??? In my current game I look at my diplomatic relations (nice addition btw) and notice that almost every other Civ has backstabbed ME! What gives!? Hahaha seems to me that this whole DoF thing isn't working as intended. To me it just seems like another "Pact of Secrecy" mechanism the AI doesn't seem to put much thought into, only use as a pretext to war.

 

[Pouakai]

I got backstabbed once. I think it's when you have a DoF then they denounce you, which you get a penalty for as well, regardless of who was the backstabber and who was the backstabee

 

[Lord Khorak]

I'd be happier if I could send the same things back at them. I should be able to covet lands. I should be able to tell them I don't like their warmongering. I should consider them to be expanding too aggressively.

But no, it doesn't matter. Basically, the computer can (and has always in every Civ) do absolutely anything it wants without dealing with a 'diplomatic penalty' from ME. Instead I'm the one who gets shafted when they dump cities all over my land and I crush them for the insult; they hate me forever because I declared war and flattened their aggressive settling in my land, because I can't tell them that it's my land and I will declare war to defend it.

The game needs a 'casus belli' system like Europa Universalis. It should recognise reasons for the player declaring war and link them to its own actions, actions which will take that into account. If I'm a military colossus....don't piss me off. Don't just make it a virtually binary system of Like me/Hate me weighed against Bigger Military/Smaller Military.

 

[wurstburst]

Having Civ A hate you because civ B backstabbed you is the most ridiculous adjustment. That would be like England hating America because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.

 

[aatami]

I made a poll about the subject: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=404788

 

[nsotos]

Completely agree with the OP. Not only are the number of positive and negative diplomatic modifiers completely unequal, but some of the negative ones are completely ridiculous.

 

[Dralix]

Why should they be equal? Why shouldn't it be easier to make someone mad at you than make them like you?

 

[kingpapawawa]

if i liberate a city state they love me forever, but when i liberate Paris and obliterate Alexander who was just kicking their ass, Nappy denounces me along with Elizabeth (who was also getting her ass handed to her by Alexander). Nappy and Elizabeth both Give a DoW but they are kind enough to wait 5 turns and now my entire military is healed up after the war with Alexander.

I would respect them a lot more if they would at least hit me when im weak!

 

[Clement]

My apologies for being slightly off-topic here, but the list in the first post has made me wonder, do any of you guys know if it's possible to improve your standing with an AI leader? can you have loads of wars with someone and then through gifts and agreeing to their requests get back in their good books?

Or is it downhill all the way?

 

[Pouakai]

Why should they be equal? Why shouldn't it be easier to make someone mad at you than make them like you?

Not saying they should be equal, but at least balanced a bit.

 

[Dralix]

My apologies for being slightly off-topic here, but the list in the first post has made me wonder, do any of you guys know if it's possible to improve your standing with an AI leader? can you have loads of wars with someone and then through gifts and agreeing to their requests get back in their good books?

Or is it downhill all the way?

I've had relations improve. I couldn't tell you why they improved, but I have had it happen.

 

[kingpapawawa]

My apologies for being slightly off-topic here, but the list in the first post has made me wonder, do any of you guys know if it's possible to improve your standing with an AI leader? can you have loads of wars with someone and then through gifts and agreeing to their requests get back in their good books?

Or is it downhill all the way?

i have been at war with a civ who declared on me. i was winning and they asked for peace and i gave it and after were friendly.

 

[Terrance888]

Sorta like how Entropy works: there are more ways to increase it, so increase it will. Like where eventually everything will equalize, in the game everything will tend towards war right now. We need to make equalibrim somwhere more centralized on the friend/enemy line.

 

[Namaspamus]

more positive modifiers, i.e.

-We're at war with the same person
-You agreed to a request after a DoF was made
-We have good trade deals
-You were merciful

And some more couldn't go amiss.

There could be:

-You liberated some of our cities.
-You gave us gold, or anything (even without request or DoF)
-Open borders made our people closer (like in Civ IV. Makes more sense with foreign trade routes)

About negative modifiers "They denounced you" shouldn't be a reason imo. They denounced you for a reason, or several, but it's not a reason by itself, unlike "You denounced them". Also "Your friends found a reason to denounce you" is strange and leads to senseless chain reactions. It's an internal affair, not other civs business. "You denounced your friends" is a much better reason.

 

[Helmling]

First, let's take a look at the diplomatic modifiers which can improve your relationship:
-We have a DoF
-We have a DoF with the same people
-We denounced the same people
-You freed their captured citizens

Now, the negative modifiers
-They covet land of yours
-They covet wonders you built
-You're expanding to agressively
-You denounced them
-They denounced you
-You refused a request after making a DoF
-Your friends found reason to denounce you
-You denounced a friend
-You demanded the not settle near you
-You broke a promise to not settle near them
-You're a warmonger

And I'm sure there are more. Now, what do we need to fix the AI? Simply more positive modifiers, i.e.

-We're at war with the same person
-You agreed to a request after a DoF was made
-We have good trade deals
-You were merciful

And some more couldn't go amiss.

Good ideas...and easy to implement. Let's hope these appear in the next patch, because I doubt any big changes are in the pipe.

 

[glaivemaster]

I'd be happier if I could send the same things back at them. I should be able to covet lands. I should be able to tell them I don't like their warmongering. I should consider them to be expanding too aggressively.

But no, it doesn't matter. Basically, the computer can (and has always in every Civ) do absolutely anything it wants without dealing with a 'diplomatic penalty' from ME. Instead I'm the one who gets shafted when they dump cities all over my land and I crush them for the insult; they hate me forever because I declared war and flattened their aggressive settling in my land, because I can't tell them that it's my land and I will declare war to defend it.

I've not quoted the last point of your post, though I do agree it's a nice idea, because it's not relevant to the point I'm about to make.

When the AI declares war on you, how do you feel? If that civ had a DoF with you before they did it, how do you feel? When the AI denounces you, how do you feel? Do those things feel bad? I bet they do - there's your diplomatic penalty.

You're not a computer or a robot, you have real feelings. The AI does not - it has to be told what to feel by its programming. When a civ hates you, declares war on you and takes all your cities, the other AI (though it may not seem like it, because we have absolutely no idea of the relationships between AIs) will probably call them a warmonger as well. That's just as unfair as when they do the same to you.

Our advantage here is that we can see how the AI feel, and react accordingly (something the AI is not capable of doing), we are able to betray our 'friends' (something the AI only does because it is programmed to), and we can still feel bad or good about things that the AI does. Just because you don't have a little badge on your chest telling the world "I covet lands you own. You denounced me" etc. doesn't mean you don't feel them. You make up your own mind about 'diplomatic modifiers'

This is how the human vs AI binary works, and has always in every Civ

 

[deanej]

Not so. If the AI tells you not to settle in certain areas, you ignore it, and they DOW you, you can't be mad at them. But if you claim some land as yours, the AI settles there, and you DOW, they will be mad. Does that make any sense to you?

 

[bonafide11]

There should be a way to build a lasting friendly relationship with another Civ since it would mutually benefit both civs, but this is impossible which is ridiculous. Why in the hell would another Civ get mad at me if one of my friends denounces me? Diplomacy in Civ V is broken. I want the AI to play to win the game too, but it doesn't help them to win if they always screw over the human player. Sometimes it'd help the AI to win if they maintained friendly relations with the human player.

 

[jagdtigerciv]

There is so much truth in this thread. This needs to be addressed.

Oh, and don't forget the famous:

- We think you were trying to WIN THE GAME in the same manner as us.

Immersion? Trash it ... apparently ...