Why the most famous time travel paradox is no paradox

[Terxpahseyton]

Because Warpus brought it up.

He didn't mean that you literally travel to a different past though. Rather that by altering the past, the one and only past will be different from the past inside of your head and which created you.
Still not sure what you wanted to say or how it is relevant.

 

[Perfection]

What does it mean to pop out of nothing? It means that the event of popping has no relation whatsoever to previous events. It means that whatever has just appeared has no relation whatsoever to previous events.
What does it mean if I travel to ancient Rome?
Right

IF you traveled to ancient Rome, you came from the future to the past...

Fro clarification's sake let's go back to the case where I have prevented my own birth. Please answer the following question...

If the time I came from doesn't exist, how could I have come from it?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

On account of this time still existing when you left.
edit: ninjaed

 

[Darkflight]

The only way to figure out the true answer to the paradox is to fully explain how the time travel itself works.

 

[Perfection]

On account of this time still existing when you left.

How can a time period itself go from existing to non-existing? Are you positing some sort of meta-time?

 

[warpus]

That is true. But then you must note that I haven't traveled back into my past, I've traveled to a different timeline. You are confirming that the paradox prevents me from altering my own past.

You're still in the same timeline, it just becomes altered after the event of you killing your parents.

From your point of view, you were born, you travelled back in time, and then.. a younger version of you wasn't born, due to your parents being gone.

From the point of view of someone else, you were never born, yet you exist.

I don't think there's a paradox there, you've just got to look at things from each actor's point of view.

I think I introduced a bit of confusion in an earlier post. I don't mean multiple timelines, I just mean that each person's point of view will seem to indicate that reality is different.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

IF you traveled to ancient Rome, you came from the future to the past...

Sure technically I came from there, but for all intends and purposes, I popped up from nothing.
For all intends and purposes, there is no difference between time travel into the past and just BAM appearing form nowhere. Because both cases are defined by preceding events having no causal relationship to it.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

How can a time period itself go from existing to non-existing? Are you positing some sort of meta-time?

Meta-time? I don't know what that would be.
By "time" I thought we just referred to a specific version of a time period, not the time period as such. The specific version which gave birth to me existed when I travel back in time. The moment I changed the past, this specific version ceased to exist. Straight-forward enough to me

 

[Perfection]

You're still in the same timeline, it just becomes altered after the event of you killing your parents.

From your point of view, you were born, you travelled back in time, and then.. a younger version of you wasn't born, due to your parents being gone.

From the point of view of someone else, you were never born, yet you exist.

I don't think there's a paradox there, you've just got to look at things from each actor's point of view.

I think I introduced a bit of confusion in an earlier post. I don't mean multiple timelines, I just mean that each person's point of view will seem to indicate that reality is different.

If people have views apparently inconsistent with one another then there should be a means of resolving them into a single "overhead" view. Otherwise we abandon the idea that we live in a coherent shared reality.

 

[Perfection]

Meta-time? I don't know what that would be.
By "time" I thought we just referred to a specific version of a time period, not the time period as such. The specific version which gave birth to me existed when I travel back in time. The moment I changed the past, this specific version ceased to exist. Straight-forward enough to me

Okay to summarize your views, when I travel to 1980 to prevent my parents from meeting, you're saying I make a version of the future ceases to exist and yet I still come from that version?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Okay to summarize your views, when I travel to 1980 to prevent my parents from meeting, you're saying I make a version of the future ceases to exist and yet I still come from that version?

Exactly

 

[Perfection]

Okay so it's 2014 now, In 2020 I'm going back in time to 1980 to prevent my existence. Yet, it's 2014 and this version exists. How can this version of 2014 now exist despite the fact that it hasn't existed since 1980? Are we currently living in a non-existent reality?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Because it only hasn't existed since 1980 the moment you actually went back. Your life before the time travel was real for a while. Then it stopped being real and all that is left is you popping up in 1980 with all those memories in your head.

 

[Perfection]

Because it only hasn't existed since 1980 the moment you actually went back.

But it's 2014 now, which is after 1980, so shouldn't that already have occurred by now?

Your life before the time travel was real for a while

When was my life real?

Then it stopped being real and all that is left is you in popping up in 1980 with all those memories in your head.

When did it stop being real?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

But it's 2014 now, which is after 1980, so shouldn't that already have occurred by now?

That assumes that there can only be one absolute state of the time-line - instead of different states replacing each other, caused by time travel into the past. Why would you assume so? Seems like an arbitrary assumption to me - hence I don't make it

When was my life real?

Until you prevented your birth. (I am contradicting myself her - sorry about that, but this is a more accurate answer than my previous one)

When did it stop being real?

The exact moment? When you prevented your birth.

 

[warpus]

If people have views apparently inconsistent with one another then there should be a means of resolving them into a single "overhead" view. Otherwise we abandon the idea that we live in a coherent shared reality.

That's true. The resolution can't be easily put into words (by me), but I suppose my point is that just because there is contradiction between accounts, doesn't imply a paradox.

Let's look at it this way.. In my past, my parents gave birth to me. To people I'd be living beside and interacting with, my parents never gave birth to anyone like me.. because they died before they had a chance to. And yet there we'd be, sharing the same reality, and the same timeline. It seems like a paradox, but I don't think that it is.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

The contradiction between accounts rests on time travel into the past screwing with causality, as I already explained..

 

[Perfection]

That assumes that there can only be one absolute state of the time-line - instead of different states replacing each other, caused by time travel into the past. Why would you assume so? Seems like an arbitrary assumption to me - hence I don't make it

If there are many versions of the time-line what separates existing versions from non-existing versions? That is, which version is the real version?

In what sense will I make this version non-real or non-existent when I go back in time and prevent my own birth?

 

[warpus]

The contradiction between accounts rests on time travel into the past screwing with causality, as I already explained..

I disagree. Look at disagreements between space travellers. They will disagree about many things, but causality isn't affected in any way, even though logically thinking through what they are reporting, you'd think that it would.

My parents would not be able to give birth to a baby warpus.. but I was born, in my past, to my parents.

Seems like a paradox, but I don't think that it is one.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

@Perf
Well I do assume that the time-line is like the Highlander. And if there is only one, the question of which one is the real one is superfluous. However - if time travel back in time is possible - similar to how the Highlander can choose different attire, the time-line can change. That wouldn't cause you to ask who the real Highlander is.