Why use FotL? (If your not elves)

[hiphopin]

I see no logical reason to use FoL if your not elves, seriously ancient forests<ANY other improvement, the ancient forests it wont help tile yields because there are other improvements that destroy the forest that would give better yields, sure it gives a little extra defence but I still see no point. ESPECIALLY because you cant even build lumber mills in them. Besides their priests and heros are not that great compared to other religions.

 

[orangelex44]

In a word, Health. FoL gives the Health you want for giant cities - it's great for Kuriotate and Calabim, not bad for Lanun or Sidar. For some other civs, it's not so useful - but that applies to each religion, they have civs that mesh and civs that don't.

 

[Fafnir13]

FoL has more going for it than just the ancient forests. They've also got some decent religious units, heroes, and priest spells. The forests are just an extra bit of icing that helps you grow early game while still maintaining some production. Also, if you're following the FoL civic (can't remember its name right now) those trees are also providing happiness. Not too shabby.

 

[MiKa523]

You mean Guardian of Nature and yes, it's not too shabby.
As already posted, FoL has many benefits: heroes, health, happiness, tigers (giving happiness and culture), which means, you are less dependend on ressources giving health and happiness.
FoL can be a good choice for non-elves, but as I already said in another FoL thread:
It's so good for elves with all their synergies with forests that in comparission it appears to be weak for all other civs, but it really isn't.

 

[orangelex44]

Honestly, all the religions are pretty balanced.... OO is maybe a little weak in combat right now, but the awesome culture bonus makes up for it. Lots of people complain about CoE's religious wonder, but it's a neat mechanic that has it's uses. Others think Empyrean is weak, but the Overcouncil and the Empy hero are awesome, the Empy units aren't bad, and it's a nice religion to get if you missed out on the earlier ones. FoL is really no better or worse than the others, it just has such a powerful synergy with elves that as MiKa said, they get lost in the mix when you play as someone else.

 

[EverNoob]

FoL priest can summon tigers, which can be sacrificed in cities for extra culture and happiness. Then you can spam priests and have renewable hordes of tigers similar to sheaim skeleton hordes. Except that tigers can gain levels and can be boosted by nature's revolt.

 

[onedreamer]

I see no logical reason to use FoL if your not elves.

There ARE logical reasons to use it, as other posters have listed, but I see more logical reasons not to use it

 

[Sarisin]

FoL priest can summon tigers, which can be sacrificed in cities for extra culture and happiness. Then you can spam priests and have renewable hordes of tigers similar to sheaim skeleton hordes. Except that tigers can gain levels and can be boosted by nature's revolt.

Exactly. I think the FOL priests are one of the best early religious units. I switch to FOL just so I can build a FOL priest and summon a Tiger to get all the animals to build the Grand Menagerie. Tigers make great explorers and also are good for knocking down powerful units where they can be more easily killed.

Also, I think the FOL heroes are pretty decent - I especially love that ambling tree stump, Yvain.

 

[it-ogo]

I also feel myself incomfortable with the choice between forest and improvement for non-elven FoL civ. Maybe Guardian of nature civic (or HP tech) can enable a mediocre improvement which can be built in ancient forest by any civ?

For example "health resort" - +1 gold. +1 gold more with Commune with nature.

 

[Caradoc]

FoL priest can summon tigers, which can be sacrificed in cities for extra culture and happiness. Then you can spam priests and have renewable hordes of tigers similar to sheaim skeleton hordes. Except that tigers can gain levels and can be boosted by nature's revolt.

Tell me more about Tigers being boosted by Nature's Revolt.

 

[Xuenay]

I feel FoL is overpowered on heavily forested maps. Practically guarantees that all of your cities will reach insane sizes, the other religions have difficulty competing.

 

[slowcar]

FoL is also great as a walk-by religion. just spend a few turns with it when you get it early, let some wood change and continue to another religion.

 

[EverNoob]

Tell me more about Tigers being boosted by Nature's Revolt.

The nature's revolt ritual gives +2 att/def (heroic defense I-II and heroic strength I-II promotions) to all animals everywhere. The end result is 6 tigers, which in itself isn't super spetacular, but they can start with empower V, have 2, and level up like regular units.

I especially love that ambling tree stump, Yvain.

Chalid is the strongest religious hero, but Yvain is definitely the coolest of them all

 

[Goodgimp]

I had one game where i started out in a heavily forested plains area with about nil sources of food or irrigation to be found. Needless to say, FoL was a godsend considering most of my cities were capping out at a paltry 5 population prior to adopting it.

 

[orangelex44]

Chalid is the strongest religious hero, but Yvain is definitely the coolest of them all.

I dunno, Sphener is a champion....

 

[EverNoob]

All work and no play makes Sphener a dull angel

Yvain on the other hand spends his free time chasing nymphs

 

[orangelex44]

Hey, Sphenor has fun too - he likes to vacation in Hell and play Tag with the locals. Of course, he uses a sword and can never seem to stop being "It", but he has a jolly time nonetheless.

 

[Zechnophobe]

I see no logical reason to use FoL if your not elves, seriously ancient forests<ANY other improvement, the ancient forests it wont help tile yields because there are other improvements that destroy the forest that would give better yields, sure it gives a little extra defence but I still see no point. ESPECIALLY because you cant even build lumber mills in them. Besides their priests and heros are not that great compared to other religions.

Hiphopin, have you looked up the Guardian of Nature Civic? Give it a looksie.

Now, let's consider that you have a city with a number of forests in its radius of say, 6. That's a fair bit, but not overwhelmingly large.

That leaves 14 squares you can work that aren't forests. You'd need 14 total happiness (+ more for war weariness, liberty penalties, or whatnot) to work those 14 squares, and enough food to as well.

Like you say, these squares can probably outproduce even an Ancient Forest (Though farms don't really, but cottages and mines do). So they are probably the ones we really want to be working.

Now lets factor in Guardian of Nature. This civic will give our test city 6 more happiness, and 5 more health. At the point when you can first get GoN, you may have a happiness cap of around 7 or 8 (As in, the number of population points per city that can actually work tiles is 7 or 8). Maybe higher if you get some lucky early game resources. Of those 14 tiles you were working only 8. With GoN, you get a big boost to 14, and have room to grow!

Here's where it gets cool. Not only will you have room to grow, but because your forests start producing 3 food as ancient forests, you can work these tiles for a while, cause extremely rapid growth (At size 8k, if you work 3 Ancient forested grasslands, and 2 grassland cottages, you'll be making +6 food per turn). You will also have a good solid +5 health from the civic to maintain that rate of growth.

The overall boon of FoL, is the combination of all these effects. Consider the output of your empire. All your cities rapidly grow from size 8 to size 14. Some in deep forests will grow even more and faster. You've really just increased your output by about 80%. That's production, commerce, everything.

80% out is huge, and extremely worth it. When you work the numbers for FoL, it is often the strongest religion in the game, and it is a shame more people don't realize this.

Oh, and remember, if you want to, you can still chop down ancient forests and put up other things.

 

[Zechnophobe]

FoL is also great as a walk-by religion. just spend a few turns with it when you get it early, let some wood change and continue to another religion.

This is a completely valid point too. Pick it up, switch, give all your forest +1 food, and continue on to a more aggressive religion, like OO or AV, or even Chalid (Empyrean is not a religion, Chalid is ).

 

[Shaymizz]

I see no logical reason to use FoL if your not elves, seriously ancient forests<ANY other improvement, the ancient forests it wont help tile yields because there are other improvements that destroy the forest that would give better yields, sure it gives a little extra defence but I still see no point. ESPECIALLY because you cant even build lumber mills in them. Besides their priests and heros are not that great compared to other religions.

huh? get some workers, rip down the "ancient forest", get a priest, cast bloom, you now have "new forest", wait for it to grow to "forest", send a LOT of workers to build a lumbermill before it ages to "ancient forest". If they don't make it, chop it down again, and restart, the work they'll have done towards the lumbermill won't be discarded. In the end, you've got an ancient forest with a lumbermill.