Will 24 hours be enough time in the future?

[DaveShack]

Note: These are my opinions. I believed these things before my team had its little problem with the save, and this thread is not about that incident.

So, this 24 hour thing we have... Right now it's a great idea, since we're in the timeframe where there are relatively few decisions to be made. But I ask you, for a team game, does it really make sense to set so short a limit once we have team decisions to make? For a global team, to be fair to everyone would require 24 hours just for every team member to see a question, much less respond to it.

Taking some guesses from the information Rik shared about the map, it is reasonable to be expecting contacts with other teams about now. This does not mean anything in actual game terms to imply knowledge of contacts (or lack of such knowledge), just theoretical. What this does mean however is that we could be looking at the start of diplomacy any time now. And diplomacy could mean someone needs to hold the save until they get an answer.

Should we push things along as fast as we can? Absolutely!

I would like to encourage my counterparts however to consider how they plan to respond to the 24 hour rule when they are faced with an important event within the next few turns. At the very least we need to start expecting the other teams to post their plan to use more than 24 hours, and there had better not be any complaining about it when those inevitable requests for time start pouring in.

Maybe we should work with a larger default so we don't have to give notice of extra time needed on every turn...

 

[Rik Meleet]

Diplomacy can be done in the IBT. For now 24 hours seems reasonable. Don't forget that any teammember can post a "delayed" message in the turn-thread if the 24 hour deadline can't be reached due to absences or unexpected in-game events.

When your city number and unit number increases; 24 hours can be short; perhaps even too short. I don't see any problem with increasing the allowed time to play in principe, but you have to be careful with that. A team can now wait at max 3 days until they are up again. If the allowed time is set to 2 days (example) a team might have to wait for nearly a week; that could be too much as that does slow the game.

As an observer and lurker of the game I see different approaches to the turn-playing; some teams have a special person that plays the turns; other teams discuss on what to do next in the IBT and don't have a designated player. Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages. If you choose the system that suits your team the best then it should be feasable to play within 24 hours.

Although I am not a team-member and technically completely disconnected from the game, I do feel closely connected to it. Take my post as the view of an involved-outsider. In the end it is the 4 teams + the 2 admins who decide.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

You don't have just 24 hours - you have a lot more than that. Things like general exploration paths, build queues, dotmaps, etc, can all be done with old saves. What I mean is, after your team sends the save, (as long as you don't do anything irreversible, like explore a different way with a unit), you can use the save to investigate different build queues, think about where cities should go, and just gaze at the map. Use the other team's time to your advantage, rather than just waiting to make decisions.

Maybe later in the game (industrial age? If the game isn't over by then), the turn time can be pushed up a bit. Diplomacy can take some time, but as long as you have a general idea of your game plan for the next few turns, turns shouldn't take too long. Of course, I do not experience what the teams do, so I do not have full knowledge.

I would rather people take the time they need to complete the turn efficiently yet sufficiently, and not 'turn hawk' - when 24 hours are up, don't haggle them right away. Give them an hour or two. So far, I haven't seen enough problems to change it. We'll see how long it takes in the future and go from there.

 

[Xerol]

Perhaps if it hasn't been a certain amount of time since a team has sent a save (say 36 hours) they'll get that time if they need it. So if team A sends at midnight, team B gets it and sends at 1:30AM, Team C sends at 5am, and Team D plays and uploads at 10am then Team A would have until noon the next day (26 hours) instead of the normal 24. Doesn't seem like much but it might be needed in the event where all of the other teams are on the ball and play their turns within a matter of hours, when the other team is counting on having a day or two to plan things before their 24 hours even begins. (So, maybe have something like "12/18/24 Hour Guaranteed Plan Time" or something.)

BTW has anyone been getting my PMs about not being able to access my team's forum?

 

[Ginger_Ale]

Xerol: Have you gone to your User CP and applied to join your team's group? I can then add you to that group. Each team's group gets access to their private forum.

 

[Xerol]

Yes, I have, I've been there for a few weeks. But suddenly I can't see it anymore, and I tried applying again but it says I'm already a member of the group. Everything's been acting wonky these last few days though, I need to run some sweepers and clear some cookies, maybe that'll fix it.

 

[Provolution]

I think teams can plan a long way ahead as we do, not just start from scratch with every single save and take as much as time as possible. We have planned a long way, so we know what to do about the save when it gets in. And yes, we do things democratically, and Rik and my team-mates can testify to that. I am not taking lectures from other teams on how we do it inside Team TNT on that note, they do not know how we operate.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

How about when we get into WWIII and all those artillery shots and worker moves?

 

[Provolution]

I wonder if we should give a time quota allowance to each teamfor exceeding 24 hours, based on Team Doughnuts persistent delays some of these turns, that would be only fair.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

Provolution, please STOP these attacks on Team Doughnut. I went through the turn tracker - in the last 15 turns, they have an average send time of a bit under 17 hours. That is UNDER the 24 hour limiit by 7 hours. They have gone over the 24 hour limit twice, however, once they requested for extra time. The highest they have gone is 28 hours. I wish for you to stop using team Doughnut as a scapegoat.

 

[Provolution]

I am just making sure we are not getting an exclusive warning when TNT goes over the limit one day. So far we are the only one.

 

[classical_hero]

That was three days we are talking about, not a few extra hours. There is a big difference. An advanced warning that a delay is about to occur is the best way to avoid any trouble. All the turn tracker is for is to show that a team has played the save as quickly as possible. Delays are inevitable, because w have real lives outside of this game. All that we need it a plan for smooth playing of the save.

 

[ybbor]

I think we would have no problem going to 36 hours or even 48.

my guess is currently the designated player plays the save within one hour of knowing its available. So if someone knows the save is in their hands at 8:00p.m. they're going to play it before they go to bed as opposed to the next morning at 10:00 am. the 36+ hours wouldnt be used except in cases where it was necessary. So in the short term we wouldn't see any increase in playing time at all, and most likely would rarely see the effects except in cases where absolutely necessary by the teams.

This extension also allows discussions about gameplay to proceed in a more healthy environment, where the player can wait for consensus on though issues and allow more people to participate in the discussion (and hence have more people have fun- and isn't what the game's for anyway?) without the feeling of being rushed.

Personally, I'm all for the extension of playing time.

 

[Rik Meleet]

How about when we get into WWIII and all those artillery shots and worker moves?

Turns take longer the further the game advances, that is something we all know. There is always room for rediscussing the 24 hours. I advise to delay that discussion till the moment teams experience structural difficulties in "playing the turns on time".

Many turns are still played well under 6 hours currently. You are still far away from structurally needing the full 24 hours to play. I have seen / played / read about many PBEM's and few reach the Industrial age let alone the Modern Age. Those 2 ages are the ages where turns take long to play. And I would be very surprised if the allowed time was still only 24 hours when you reach those ages.
Occasionally Middle Ages (and rarely ancient age) turns require a lot of time, for that the "post in the turn-thread if you can't make the 24 hours" rule is in place.

I still believe that a lot of time-consuming work, such as next worker actions, city management and -most importantly- diplomacy, can be done while the save is not with the team.