Will Civ V be better than Civ IV?

[chris.giddins]

I guess you haven't done more than glance at the mods then. Most mods are more than just graphics. Star Trek, for example, has a unit cloaking ability and changes tile and resource management completely. Also the units/techs are completely different. Civs have unique wonders and traits in addition to leader traits. Though I do admit with Star Trek, my though process was "what would Sid make civ like if civ was made in the 25th century in the Star Trek universe".

Fall From Heaven is another great example. It's practically a completely different game. And Rhye's and Fall of Civilization adds civs spawning at historical times, replaces leader traits with unique powers, adds a stability system, and has plague.

I guess I owe an apology then. Maybe I should check them out a bit more. TBH however, my general frustration with Civ4 didn't really encourage me to stick around checking out other Mods. I didn't mean to be critical specifically about your Mod BTW, Star Trek seems to be a Mod that appears in every game that can be Modded, it was just a general observation.

 

[deanej]

To be fair, I did totally rip off civ4's own buildings for Star Trek's because I didn't feel like making new ones.

 

[chris.giddins]

I don't have anything against Star Trek by the way, I love it!!

 

[Darth Caesar]

Will Civ V be better than Civ IV?


Of course Civ V will be better than Civ 4, as in my eyes Civ 4 was the worst part of the complete civ series (especially the unit graphics were horrible). I can´t say if it will be the best version of civ yet, as it must be compared with much better versions of the civ series and Civ 5 isn´t available yet.

This is incorect in my opinion.

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[Gelvan]

@chris.giddins
well this depends on your definition of "cosmetic changes". if new civics system, revolutions, new religion mechanics, things like spells and terraforming, ranged combat, plot counters that change terrain, new music, better AI, complete new resources handling, better UI, buying mercenary units and so on is only a cosmetic change to you...
well after all, the mod's ARE civ4, but improved. the word "finished" was a bit harsh, since BtS is finished as well, but somehow it is not "enough". I'm not a modder myself, I am just a player and therefore very grateful that there are people that can and do reprogram a game to an extended version - for free by the way - which a company just can't do, because of financial issues. I personally think it needs both: a company to make a great backbone - and fan(atics) who are willing to make and play mods. Fall from Heaven, Dune Wars and Civ4: Alpha Centauri could be standalone expansions like civ4: colonization. if there were fat manuals and charts like the ones in ToT for sale, I would buy it. Alas for FFH2 there are two manuals and a background-story-pdf, free for downloading.
however if you really don't like civ4 (unbelievable! ) I'm not sure if you like mods for civ4. chances are, that you would like something like Rise of Mankind, CivGold etc. since many of the "flaws" you might see in civ4 perhaps already have been adressed in one or even all of these mods.
I understand the sentiment that you would like to have a game out of the box, that is very refined, and just don't needs any mods (other than graphical enhancements). but I don't think this will ever happen again. we're not in the 90ies anymore... therefore if a company gives the customers something good, which they can enhance, it gets even better. the more static and unmodable a pc game (especially turn based ones) is, the less life cycle it has. and less life cycle directly translates in less profit and thereby less new games. modding therefore IS important for a game. furthermore it's a much more reliable way to get loyal customers than PDLC. there are people who bought Beyond the Sword only because of Fall from Heaven. that's a dream for a company - and a big compliment to the mod as well.

 

[chris.giddins]

What Mod would you suggest is best to check out? I'd like to take another look now. My dislike of Civ4 is one that I've seen written a million times in this forum and others, it's all subjective in the end but having been into Civ since it was 5 floppies on the Amiga, I liked the relatively uncluttered gameplay of 1, 2 and SMAC and SMAX. Personally, and I think this is the main issue I have, is that though the playing world got bigger by Civ4 it was in reality tiny. By that I mean that it seemed that in Civ1 you could go for years without encountering anyone and when you did it seemed as though they were miles away. I always had a sense of wonderment and surprise when I stumbled upon the Egyptians or Aztecs. By Civ4 it just seemed a pain in the arse that they bugging you straight away and you had no elbow room. I appreciate that some people might have preferred it like that. Ahh the good old days.

 

[The_J]

For a bigger world try the Giant Earth Map mod.
And you've mentioned SMAC: You also could check out Planetfall, which tries to recreate the feeling of SMAC in Civ4.

 

[MAHRana]

Modding is an art; you can do all sorts of things to the game from tweaking small details to changing the whole style and design. Civ is known for it's malleability and that's a main factor in it's success.

 

[chris.giddins]

Well I have to offer my profound apologies. I've just checked out Planetfall, it's brilliant!!! Civ 5 better allow Mods!!!!!!

 

[Ahriman]

What I felt was a bit over the top was some of the opinions expressing that the creaters had an obligation to make the ability to "Mod" as important as the game itself.

I have spent more time playing mods of Civ4 (Fall From Heaven 2 and its modmods, Rhyes and Fall, Rise of Mankind, Revolutions, Planetfall, Road to War, Warhammer, Dune Wars) than I have playing official un-moded Civ4, Warlords and BTS.

And I wouldn't even consider playing vanilla without some of the improvements (like BUG).

For some of us, mods are as important as the game itself.

Are there Mods out there that fundamentally change and improve the game beyond mere cosmetic appearance?

Yes. Try some of the mods above.

 

[deanej]

I can honestly say I haven't played unmodded BtS ever since around the time 3.17 came out.

 

[civ_king]

Civ IV is good, lets hope Civ V is better

 

[Thyrwyn]

Amen, brother.

 

[Tylerryan79]

Just jumping in in support of the bat mod. I love it. Its got the bug mod(great) and updates the graphics of units ect and makes the whole game look great. It doesnt change any game mechanics, but makes it a whole new game imo. Also has blue marble, That updateds the terrain graphics. I played a game with stock bts and almost lol at how silly the terrain looked, I hadnt seen it in so long. So as someone who also never really knew about, or considered mods, they totally are something to scream for to the developers. I personally cant mod, but those who can and do deserve that ability, its a gift to everyone.

 

[frekk]

Will Civ V be better than Civ IV?


Of course Civ V will be better than Civ 4, as in my eyes Civ 4 was the worst part of the complete civ series (especially the unit graphics were horrible). I can´t say if it will be the best version of civ yet, as it must be compared with much better versions of the civ series and Civ 5 isn´t available yet.

Civ4 had a number of huge changes and it was produced in a rush. They went to 3D, they threw in religion and civics and reworked many of the rules - plus, they added the ability to mod the game at every level, including source code.

So I don't fault it too much for the shortcomings it has, it was almost an experimental platform.

 

[tom2050]

Civ4 had a number of huge changes and it was produced in a rush. They went to 3D, they threw in religion and civics and reworked many of the rules - plus, they added the ability to mod the game at every level, including source code.

So I don't fault it too much for the shortcomings it has, it was almost an experimental platform.

Agreed, I think I take for granted that it is a big change to go from Isometric 2d to full 3d. There is with no doubt a big learning curve that the dev's undertake to get everything right. Although I give Civ 4 trouble on occasion over the (early) graphics, I do it in not a serious way usually (although others might not be able to tell in a forum).

They have done a fabulous job from the recent screenshots with 3d this time around. It will probably look better when the game is released.

 

[Tylerryan79]

They have done a fabulous job from the recent screenshots with 3d this time around. It will probably look better when the game is released.

I also like how the new graphics look, they look nice and smooth, and not blocky. The colors for the terrain are also way better than civ iv's. The one thing I dont like however is the advisor pictures, and unit pictures in the lower left corner. We have only seen that one pic so far(atleast Ive only seen one), but I didnt like it. I cant describe its look, cartoony or comic bookish maybe, if thats a word. Just isnt what I had imagined. Overall Im excited, and cant wait till E3 for something new.

 

[bite]

The only thing about the graphics i don't like so far is the rivvers, they really look out of place with the rest of the great terrain

 

[deanej]

The problem with things being smooth and not blocky is that you have to turn the grid on to see where the hexes are. Civ4 had smooth terrain early in its development, but it was changed to blocky because people couldn't tell which tile was which.

 

[Ahriman]

The problem with things being smooth and not blocky is that you have to turn the grid on to see where the hexes are

It doesn't look like it would be very hard from the screenshots.
And I much prefer smooth with a grid I can turn on if necessary to blocky.

Agree on the rivers.